Something about Polish - German history, How Germany is slowly changing it.

[Mentoll]

Hello. I am from Poland, so that is why I made this thread . I bet that most of you know it, but if there is one person who doesnt know, it is worth then.


I am very disgusted about Polish goverment because they dont do anything if any country says something wrong about Poland. The thing has started couple months ago and It is connected with Second World War. If you are not interested you can stop reading now. Some facts now ;

- ZDF, public tv in germany has published a serial "Unsere Mütter, unsere Väter", which showed Polish underground army as a jude murderers.
- ARD, public tv has published a serial about "realise Polish camp of annihilation Majdanek and Auschwitz"
- RTV.de has published similar information.
- Celle, newspaper has written informatino about "Polish concentration camp"
- Berliner Zeitung, newspaper also has written about "Polish concetration camp"
- www.userort.de/loeln Koln (city ) has written about " Polish annihilation camps"
- www.swp.de/ulm Ulm ( city ) has also written about " Polish annihilation camps"

Well, to be honest, that wasnt polish annihilation camps, They belong to GERMANY, and GERMANS killed around 11 000 000 people there! They were killing not only Judes, they killed more Polish people.


Why I wrote that? Someone who does not know the history, may think " These Poles were bad guys, they had annihilation camps, and murdered a lot ".

[dinmamma]

But have you read the stories?

Do they really say that polish people were killing other polish people and jews? In that case WTF!
I just thought that they could mean that polish people were annihilated in those camps, not that they were actually killing anyone themselves, idk.

Mentoll

[Mentoll]

But have you read the stories?

Do they really say that polish people were killing other polish people and jews? In that case WTF!
I just thought that they could mean that polish people were annihilated in those camps, not that they were actually killing anyone themselves, idk.

Mentoll

Well, they meant that camps were located in poland and thats correct but poland was occupated by germany. The titles are okay until the person who read it know the situation. Yes, Poles were annihilated, but someone can mind that Poles were anihilating someone. That is not correct to publish 2 meanings titles.

[XtrmJosh]

Well, they meant that camps were located in poland and thats correct but poland was occupated by germany. The titles are okay until the person who read it know the situation. Yes, Poles were annihilated, but someone can mind that Poles were anihilating someone. That is not correct to publish 2 meanings titles.

Actually the truth is that Polish people were forced by the Germans to run the concentration camps in many cases, as although the Germans were in large numbers they did not have the manpower to continue to invade at the speeds they needed to meet "targets" set by Nazi leaders. I'm not sure what depiction the programs you've listed say, but I can assure you that anyone of importance and intelligence in this world won't know nor care for the information.

[Hawk]

Kill all jews.

[dinmamma]

Well, they meant that camps were located in poland and thats correct but poland was occupated by germany. The titles are okay until the person who read it know the situation. Yes, Poles were annihilated, but someone can mind that Poles were anihilating someone. That is not correct to publish 2 meanings titles.

Ofcourse it's not correct, but not illegal and they always do that JUST to catch the attention of the reader.

I actually hate when newspapers, storywriters etc do that, they make the title sound so catchy but when you read it, it's not what you thought.

[Avani]

We also have "Dutch Concentration Camps" which actually were runned by German's and Dutch Nazi members

[Bushu]

Well, they meant that camps were located in poland and thats correct but poland was occupated by germany. The titles are okay until the person who read it know the situation. Yes, Poles were annihilated, but someone can mind that Poles were anihilating someone. That is not correct to publish 2 meanings titles.

^Correct.

[Mentoll]

Actually the truth is that Polish people were forced by the Germans to run the concentration camps in many cases, as although the Germans were in large numbers they did not have the manpower to continue to invade at the speeds they needed to meet "targets" set by Nazi leaders. I'm not sure what depiction the programs you've listed say, but I can assure you that anyone of importance and intelligence in this world won't know nor care for the information.

The next case is that "Nazi leaders" were germans. Why did you stop to use the Germans? Now you write " Nazi leaders" and about 10 years there will be no germans just nazi leaders . That is a small change of history?

[XtrmJosh]

The next case is that "Nazi leaders" were germans. Why did you stop to use the Germans? Now you write " Nazi leaders" and about 10 years there will be no germans just nazi leaders . That is a small change of history?

The primary reason is because not all Nazi leaders (nor party members) were German. For instance, Leonardo Conti was Swiss / Italian, and there are no official documents to suggest a German heritage. The fact is what you're saying here is that the Germans are bad and the Polish are innocent, well, in all reality no country is completely innocent, and no single country can be accused of such crimes as being responsible for an entire world war. Admittedly the majority of Germans at the time were supporters of the Nazi party, but you know what? In reality, that's a perfectly understandable thing to do, to support such a party. Their beliefs were primarily socially acceptable, and their efficiency as a country could well have earned them world domination despite how many people they would need to slaughter and torture. Innocent people suffered, yeah, and guilty people committed crimes of war, but they did it because of what they were brainwashed to believe. This is gonna sound incredibly racist to the feeble minded, but everyone is capable of being brainwashed into believing in a cause, it just takes the right amount of suggestion and subtlety. I was raised in Roman Catholic and Christian schools, and although I don't like to admit it to many of my friends, colleagues, and even my girlfriend, I still maintain a belief in a God of some definition, and a large portion of what I've read in my religions books and scriptures. All that in the same way that many of the people who today are doctors, scientists and even leading politicians actually still believe in religions such as Buddhism, Islam, and other religions which personally I look at and just think "what the fuck?!" The fact is, I've been programmed since childhood to believe in a certain thing, and they have been programmed to believe in something which my programming simply cannot comprehend due to the variance in nature of the two.

I strongly believe the people of Germany even under Nazi leadership to be innocent, and guilty of little more than being gullible. Being gullible, by the way, is not a crime.

Another reason that I say "Nazi Leaders" is because the people of Germany had very little influence over political decisions that were made during Nazi rule. The leaders commissioned work to be done, and the people simply blindly obeyed... Maybe if they had been raised with a different perspective on life they would have rebelled and a lot of lives would have been spared. Maybe if I had been raised differently I wouldn't waste my time trying to educate people on the internet about things they complain about, but don't entirely understand. Who knows? All we know is it has happened, and there is little more we can do about it than mourn. If people decide to spread propaganda, let them do so. It will be the weak minded and foolish who fall for it, and they will not obtain power under any current government in my opinion.

Another example of this brainwashing is the way that you have been led to believe that Poland was solely a victim of the Nazi leadership over Germany, when in reality the Polish government at the time refused many German legislations which effectively would have allied the countries (and eventually lead to a much stronger community build of several of the European countries today). All that Hitler was trying to achieve realistically was for Germany to be "Europe" as we know it today (excluding some territories which had been promised to allied Japan). The racist side of the war has been exacerbated so much by the media that the Nazi party have been portrayed as nothing more than fowl minded cretins with no stronger desire than that to kill. Now, I'm not saying that they were innocent of racism by any means, as there are numerous clear signs of racism during the war, but you cannot say that racism was the entire cause. As Poland gradually refused more and more proposals from Germany which would've allied the two countries, the Nazi party announced to the German people that the Polish leaders were refusing to ally, therefore were only willing to be enemies, and that's the real spark that set the factory off. The people got more and more angry, and became more and more disillusioned, fearing that Poland was developing an army of more power than their own, and due to the propaganda that was spread at the time, they eventually invaded, with many Germans (as well as Nazi leaders) holding an unconfirmed belief that the Polish people were sub-human, and wanted to do exactly what they were doing. If you think about that, you'll realise that if Germany hadn't invaded Poland, there is every possibility that Poland would have invaded Germany, and then you'd be writing a completely different story on a completely different website potentially in a completely different language.

Fortunately gone are the days when territory, power, and land are the influences over a countries decision to go to war... Now we just blame it on pimps and do it for the gas.

[Mentoll]

The primary reason is because not all Nazi leaders (nor party members) were German. For instance, Leonardo Conti was Swiss / Italian, and there are no official documents to suggest a German heritage. The fact is what you're saying here is that the Germans are bad and the Polish are innocent, well, in all reality no country is completely innocent, and no single country can be accused of such crimes as being responsible for an entire world war. Admittedly the majority of Germans at the time were supporters of the Nazi party, but you know what? In reality, that's a perfectly understandable thing to do, to support such a party. Their beliefs were primarily socially acceptable, and their efficiency as a country could well have earned them world domination despite how many people they would need to slaughter and torture. Innocent people suffered, yeah, and guilty people committed crimes of war, but they did it because of what they were brainwashed to believe. This is gonna sound incredibly racist to the feeble minded, but everyone is capable of being brainwashed into believing in a cause, it just takes the right amount of suggestion and subtlety. I was raised in Roman Catholic and Christian schools, and although I don't like to admit it to many of my friends, colleagues, and even my girlfriend, I still maintain a belief in a God of some definition, and a large portion of what I've read in my religions books and scriptures. All that in the same way that many of the people who today are doctors, scientists and even leading politicians actually still believe in religions such as Buddhism, Islam, and other religions which personally I look at and just think "what the fuck?!" The fact is, I've been programmed since childhood to believe in a certain thing, and they have been programmed to believe in something which my programming simply cannot comprehend due to the variance in nature of the two.

I strongly believe the people of Germany even under Nazi leadership to be innocent, and guilty of little more than being gullible. Being gullible, by the way, is not a crime.

Another reason that I say "Nazi Leaders" is because the people of Germany had very little influence over political decisions that were made during Nazi rule. The leaders commissioned work to be done, and the people simply blindly obeyed... Maybe if they had been raised with a different perspective on life they would have rebelled and a lot of lives would have been spared. Maybe if I had been raised differently I wouldn't waste my time trying to educate people on the internet about things they complain about, but don't entirely understand. Who knows? All we know is it has happened, and there is little more we can do about it than mourn. If people decide to spread propaganda, let them do so. It will be the weak minded and foolish who fall for it, and they will not obtain power under any current government in my opinion.

Another example of this brainwashing is the way that you have been led to believe that Poland was solely a victim of the Nazi leadership over Germany, when in reality the Polish government at the time refused many German legislations which effectively would have allied the countries (and eventually lead to a much stronger community build of several of the European countries today). All that Hitler was trying to achieve realistically was for Germany to be "Europe" as we know it today (excluding some territories which had been promised to allied Japan). The racist side of the war has been exacerbated so much by the media that the Nazi party have been portrayed as nothing more than fowl minded cretins with no stronger desire than that to kill. Now, I'm not saying that they were innocent of racism by any means, as there are numerous clear signs of racism during the war, but you cannot say that racism was the entire cause. As Poland gradually refused more and more proposals from Germany which would've allied the two countries, the Nazi party announced to the German people that the Polish leaders were refusing to ally, therefore were only willing to be enemies, and that's the real spark that set the factory off. The people got more and more angry, and became more and more disillusioned, fearing that Poland was developing an army of more power than their own, and due to the propaganda that was spread at the time, they eventually invaded, with many Germans (as well as Nazi leaders) holding an unconfirmed belief that the Polish people were sub-human, and wanted to do exactly what they were doing. If you think about that, you'll realise that if Germany hadn't invaded Poland, there is every possibility that Poland would have invaded Germany, and then you'd be writing a completely different story on a completely different website potentially in a completely different language.

Fortunately gone are the days when territory, power, and land are the influences over a countries decision to go to war... Now we just blame it on pimps and do it for the gas.

Well, I totally agree with you but my minds were around the present. I know that Poles are not innocent, all people did something wrong and the war became. I accept it. But You have written " If they publish fools, most people wont believe", I cant agree with that. As you can know Hitler won democratic election. If you spread fools there is always possibility that one of ten will believe that. And year after year history will look diffrent. As nazi leaders I called germans because we were talking about Polish problem. What about my theory 1 of 10. The first published film has been watched by around 26 000 000 people, lets paste my theory 1 of 10.. Same way Hitler was choosen as a leader, same way the history is beeing changed. That is what I am trying to say. There are some fact that cant be bypassed.. What about "English annihilation camps" does it sound like " Someone has invaded English and made annihilation camps there?


If I made some mistakes in gramma, please tell it . I am still learning.

[XtrmJosh]

Well, I totally agree with you but my minds were around the present. I know that Poles are not innocent, all people did something wrong and the war became. I accept it. But You have written " If they publish fools, most people wont believe", I cant agree with that. As you can know Hitler won democratic election. If you spread fools there is always possibility that one of ten will believe that. And year after year history will look diffrent. As nazi leaders I called germans because we were talking about Polish problem. What about my theory 1 of 10. The first published film has been watched by around 26 000 000 people, lets paste my theory 1 of 10.. Same way Hitler was choosen as a leader, same way the history is beeing changed. That is what I am trying to say. There are some fact that cant be bypassed.. What about "English annihilation camps" does it sound like " Someone has invaded English and made annihilation camps there?


If I made some mistakes in gramma, please tell it . I am still learning.

The only noticeable mistake which made your post slightly difficult to read is your use of the word "fools", e.g in the sentence "If they publish fools, most people won't believe". I think you mean "lies" or the term I used, which was "Propaganda", other than that quite easily readable!

I am from England, it is a small but highly powerful country due to our alliance with USA, Canada, Australia, as well as EU. There is a famous joke here, quoted from an episode of Faulty Towers, where a man named John Cleese is running a hotel, and some Germans come to stay. When they arrive they are greeted as per usual, in a comedic sloppy manner, and when they are seated for dinner, he digs a hole and ends up uttering the words "Who won the war, anyway?" When we discuss a war, we tend to never discuss it as "Germany v World" or "Germany v England", or even "Germany v Poland", as you might imagine. We call it the World War, and if we talk about sides, for some reason (and don't ask me why this is so socially acceptable) we generally say "Nazi's v Jews". It's kinda a prime example of the media blowing things out of proportion. The Nazi party (Nazi, by the way is short for Nationalsozialismus, the German word for National Socialist) have never really been considered to have fought a single country, nation, nor even a group of those, but the way it is taught in schools and documentaries suggests that they only wanted for and ethnically clean world, where everybody was pure minded and pure bread. This is the accepted concept under many grounds, for a number of reasons, not least of which that the concentration camp "rulers" have been claimed to have been far more lenient with blonde haired, blue eyed prisoners. This is highly suggestive of the fact that the Nazi political party was only ever trying to cleanse the world of people whom it didn't see as being eligible to live.

I guess the point that I'm driving at is that any country worth it's salt (therefore any country in the EU, UN, etc) will teach what happened in the war. Their conceptual understanding of the war should be very similar to mine, and any propaganda spread about it would near enough simply be ignored. The current state of world politics pretty much grants that alone, but when you add the way that countries are becoming more and more united, and far less willing to behave irrationally, surely you can see that there should be no cause for concern regarding the issue of Polish acceptance... Especially in the EU / UN.

[Dan69]

The only noticeable mistake which made your post slightly difficult to read is your use of the word "fools", e.g in the sentence "If they publish fools, most people won't believe". I think you mean "lies" or the term I used, which was "Propaganda", other than that quite easily readable!

I am from England, it is a small but highly powerful country due to our alliance with USA, Canada, Australia, as well as EU. There is a famous joke here, quoted from an episode of Faulty Towers, where a man named John Cleese is running a hotel, and some Germans come to stay. When they arrive they are greeted as per usual, in a comedic sloppy manner, and when they are seated for dinner, he digs a hole and ends up uttering the words "Who won the war, anyway?" When we discuss a war, we tend to never discuss it as "Germany v World" or "Germany v England", or even "Germany v Poland", as you might imagine. We call it the World War, and if we talk about sides, for some reason (and don't ask me why this is so socially acceptable) we generally say "Nazi's v Jews". It's kinda a prime example of the media blowing things out of proportion. The Nazi party (Nazi, by the way is short for Nationalsozialismus, the German word for National Socialist) have never really been considered to have fought a single country, nation, nor even a group of those, but the way it is taught in schools and documentaries suggests that they only wanted for and ethnically clean world, where everybody was pure minded and pure bread. This is the accepted concept under many grounds, for a number of reasons, not least of which that the concentration camp "rulers" have been claimed to have been far more lenient with blonde haired, blue eyed prisoners. This is highly suggestive of the fact that the Nazi political party was only ever trying to cleanse the world of people whom it didn't see as being eligible to live.

I guess the point that I'm driving at is that any country worth it's salt (therefore any country in the EU, UN, etc) will teach what happened in the war. Their conceptual understanding of the war should be very similar to mine, and any propaganda spread about it would near enough simply be ignored. The current state of world politics pretty much grants that alone, but when you add the way that countries are becoming more and more united, and far less willing to behave irrationally, surely you can see that there should be no cause for concern regarding the issue of Polish acceptance... Especially in the EU / UN.

You write an awful lot, if your not doing some sort of degree which involves essay writing you've missed out!

On regards to topic, I agree with Josh in the sense that you can not blame all germans for the actions of the Nazi party. Many forget that a regime like that does not appear suddenly, Hitler rose to power democratically, and offered the german people a way out of the economic pitfall they were in.

These programs which tend to depict the polish as "willing participants" of the polish concentration camps may have some truth, but most likely, most polish people had no idea how bad these camps were, or to the extent they were killing the jews, disabled and the homosexuals.

Like Josh said, not everyone is innocent, but I'm a strong believer that without much Nazi deception, people would not have been ok with these concentration camps.

Remember, the world only really found out how bad things they were until after we entered the camps.

P.s. "DON'T MENTION THE WAR" - Basel Faulty :D

[XtrmJosh]

You write an awful lot, if your not doing some sort of degree which involves essay writing you've missed out!

On regards to topic, I agree with Josh in the sense that you can not blame all germans for the actions of the Nazi party. Many forget that a regime like that does not appear suddenly, Hitler rose to power democratically, and offered the german people a way out of the economic pitfall they were in.

These programs which tend to depict the polish as "willing participants" of the polish concentration camps may have some truth, but most likely, most polish people had no idea how bad these camps were, or to the extent they were killing the jews, disabled and the homosexuals.

Like Josh said, not everyone is innocent, but I'm a strong believer that without much Nazi deception, people would not have been ok with these concentration camps.

Remember, the world only really found out how bad things they were until after we entered the camps.

P.s. "DON'T MENTION THE WAR" - Basel Faulty :D

Basil: Is there something wrong?
Elder Herr: Will you stop talking about the war?
Basil: Me! You started it!
Elder Herr: We did not start it!
Basil: Yes you did — you invaded Poland.

Best dialogue ever.

[ogwako]

this guy is a thief.

[Mentoll]

You write an awful lot, if your not doing some sort of degree which involves essay writing you've missed out!

On regards to topic, I agree with Josh in the sense that you can not blame all germans for the actions of the Nazi party. Many forget that a regime like that does not appear suddenly, Hitler rose to power democratically, and offered the german people a way out of the economic pitfall they were in.

These programs which tend to depict the polish as "willing participants" of the polish concentration camps may have some truth, but most likely, most polish people had no idea how bad these camps were, or to the extent they were killing the jews, disabled and the homosexuals.

Like Josh said, not everyone is innocent, but I'm a strong believer that without much Nazi deception, people would not have been ok with these concentration camps.

Remember, the world only really found out how bad things they were until after we entered the camps.

P.s. "DON'T MENTION THE WAR" - Basel Faulty :D

They weren't killing jews, homosexual and disabled. You're wrong. In these camps most of people were Poles and they were civilians not judes or disabled.

Lets take for example warsaw, Before war there were 1 000 000 people livng there, one of biggest european cities. After invade there were 10 000 people left, ( including people who ran of course ). But thats not the point.

There was one action in hospital ( warsaw ). It belong to polish site, and they also had German soldiers who were hurt. They were taking care about same as for Poles. One day, the nazi came .
Firstly, one soldier shoot a hospital keeper, headshot. Then they just heard some germans lying on beds and talking " Do not kill them, they took care about us, all went fine". Capitan of the soldiers who came, just took the german patients, closed hospital and then burned alive all.