The rise of botting; the fall of Tibia

[jo3bingham]

There are two sides to the argument. One says that the decline of Tibia is CipSoft's fault, the other says it's bot makers'. CipSoft implements hotkeys/"aimbot" in to the client; one side blames bot makers for forcing CipSoft's hand, the other blames CipSoft for "letting botters win". But no one is looking at the real issue, why is botting so prevalent in Tibia compared to other MMORPGs?

To answer this question we have to look at why players bot; boredom. I'm not saying that Tibia is a boring game, if it was it would have never lasted as long as it has. CipSoft's main ploy for the game is roleplaying, however, most players don't care about roleplaying, they care about being the best. And CipSoft's no-cap system for leveling and skilling is the reason for this. Most MMORPGs (most games in general) have a limit of how high your level/skills can be, Tibia does not. This gives Tibia a unique differentiator, but it's also the main reason players bot.

Well, it's half the reason players bot. The other half is the fact that the quickest way to level up is by grinding (killing monsters), and it is boring. Mix boring grinding with wanting to be the best and you get players looking for the most efficient way of doing it. That's why botting (cavebotting to be precise) and power-leveling are the most "popular" things players do. You could argue war/PvP is top 3 in popularity, but to even be a threat you have to be a high level with good skills, which falls back to players looking for the quickest way of doing that; botting. And how can you achieve greatness when you only have a few hours of the day to play? Botting.

CipSoft could deter botting and keep their non-capped leveling/skilling. How, you ask? Simple, by devoting less experience to grinding and more experience to quests, events, raids, and other roleplaying mechanics. A lot of MMORPGs employ this system, and it's probably the main reason botting isn't as prevalent on those games as it is on Tibia. Of course, this won't completely stop players from botting, but I believe it would alleviate it greatly. However, this still leaves another issue we haven't discussed; warbots.

Like I stated before, war/PvP is arguable top 3 in popularity in Tibia. It's another one of those unique things to Tibia that differentiate it from PvP mechanics in other MMOs. Or, at least, it did. Before aimbots and the Tibia client's hotkey system, PvP was all about skill. And how can CipSoft bring that back? Unfortunately, not as simply as changing a few game mechanics or removing the hotkey system. The only solution I see to this would be for CipSoft to completely recode their client, packet structures, and possibly even their game engine. But understand that this would only be a temporary solution. It would only be a matter of time before bot makers reverse-engineered the client and packets structures and have their bot back on the market. However, though, by doing this CipSoft also would be able to set themselves up for future gains.

They could take this time to make the client a lot more efficient than it is now, because as of now, for a program that renders 2D images, it sucks. Not only efficiency, but also visual improvements. For example, the pop-up window for the Market is abominable. And with the recent boom in touchscreen OSs (Android, iOS, Windows 8) this would be a perfect opportunity for CipSoft to make the client touch-input friendly. Double-tap with one finger to attack/use/open, long-press-and-hold with one finger to move an object, double-tap with two fingers to look at an object, long-press-and-hold with two fingers to bring up a context menu, touch-and-flick anywhere to make your character move in that direction until blocked or stopped by the player, tap with one finger on a tile to walk there, the possibilities are endless and possible.

So, what are your opinions on the topic? Do you agree/disagree with my opinions? Do you think CipSoft can save Tibia from the MMORPG graveyard? Tell us what you think!

Remember, these are opinions, and this thread is for discussing why Tibia is dying, why botting is so prevalent, and ways CipSoft can keep us interested and keep themselves from going under. Any derogatory remarks to others, or going off-topic will be removed and the poster punished!

[Jah]

This was quite interesting to read actually and should be shared somewhere else aswell!
I like how you think, and i agree with you, tibia has always been "That RPG" game for me and plenty of others i know, when we got bored of that, the easy war/killing in the game wasted our time, that was in the days a level 80 was high level.

I like this, i like this alot :D

[Linty]

I bot because death loss, even with blessings, is too harsh - add to that their shit server stability (even without DDOS). You have to have high level to see the whole game, but like you said grinding for it is boring. Honestly, hunting can be pretty fun at high levels, like 150+. Before that, boring as hell. As for PvP and war on tibia - pretty much sucks ass. Idk how anyone can be obsessed with pvp on this game. PvP on OT servers can be pretty fun, though. Honestly, and haters are gonna hate, I think that PvE is more fun and challenging (if you don't go overkill, i.e. doing poi with 15 people lvl 250+) than vanilla tibia PvP.

TL;DR Too much death loss, shit server stability, takes too long to get high enough to see the whole game = why I bot

edit: Can't log in to the game right now because their login servers are offline.... bot for gold buy prem with gold. Why pay money to them when Xenobot is available for use 24/7?

[XtrmJosh]

To those who say CipSoft has tried to "join" the botters, because they can't "beat" them:

Well, consider a lot of other games added functionality such as auto grinding, whereby their character could be left for hours in one spot, and it would walk out to a creature, kill it, and return to the spot. That would be "joining" the botters. The reason behind the aimbot is because it is physically impossible to detect if someone is aiming manually or using click reuse, purely because click reuse can be so heavily manipulated by the end user. It takes about 3 lines of code (rather heavy duty code, but non the less only 3 lines) to create a FUD aimbot (or at least click reuse), and not much more to create an actual aimbot which would click a target. Probably closer to 20 lines though.

The reality of the situation is that CIP have two options. They can either go ahead full steam, piss off half their customers, and continue to struggle through difficult times as they are, or they can actually take notes on what the real community is saying and excel in what they should be.

Method 1 (shit one):
Continue to fight the impossible battle against bots.

Pros:
Community orientated players are not so displeased as with method 2.
They retain whatever dignity and respect they have, from those in the community who respect them for maintaining an honest game.
They play an honest game, and keep everything straight.
Could encourage role-play.

Cons:
Bots will always prevail, as long as the client is as manipulatable in such a way that it currently is.
There is a definitive end, people will eventually get sick of it and give up, then bots will rule, then the competition will cease, and the servers will become empty and haunted.
They lose the respect of the honest player.

Method 2 (good one):
Stop the fight, implement features which encourage access to higher level zones sooner (either through level advancement or through an cleverly designed system allowing instance based questing).

Pros:
All players will have equal access to the full content of the game within a reasonable time frame.
Bots become redundant due to the unique nature of the plan.
Encourages players who enjoy the community aspect of the game to play more, discourages players from botting.

Cons:
Respect is lost, those who still have it today will inevitably lose it shortly after the integration.
The game could potentially lose some stability from the players who are regular and reliable at paying.

The fact is, they will never cease to exist as a games company, and they will always try very hard to maintain Tibia as a playable game because of the history of it.

[Linty]

Method 2 (good one):
Stop the fight, implement features which encourage access to higher level zones sooner (either through level advancement or through an cleverly designed system allowing instance based questing).

Pros:
All players will have equal access to the full content of the game within a reasonable time frame.
Bots become redundant due to the unique nature of the plan.
Encourages players who enjoy the community aspect of the game to play more, discourages players from botting.

Cons:
Respect is lost, those who still have it today will inevitably lose it shortly after the integration.
The game could potentially lose some stability from the players who are regular and reliable at paying.

The fact is, they will never cease to exist as a games company, and they will always try very hard to maintain Tibia as a playable game because of the history of it.

I really like this, sort of solves the main reason I bot. They've probably already considered this and run some numbers and figured that they'll lose money in the end if people can see the full content of the game with less time spent playing it. In it's current state, the game pretty much blows, I really don't know why I play it - probably nostalgia.

[jo3bingham]

This was quite interesting to read actually and should be shared somewhere else aswell!
I like how you think, and i agree with you, tibia has always been "That RPG" game for me and plenty of others i know, when we got bored of that, the easy war/killing in the game wasted our time, that was in the days a level 80 was high level.

I like this, i like this alot :D
I started playing around 7.1. Before power-gaming and bots were all the game was about, and role-playing, exploring, luring, surviving, hunting/training with friends was the things to do. Those were definitely the good times, and, unfortunately, they'll never return.

I bot because death loss, even with blessings, is too harsh - add to that their shit server stability (even without DDOS). You have to have high level to see the whole game, but like you said grinding for it is boring. Honestly, hunting can be pretty fun at high levels, like 150+. Before that, boring as hell. As for PvP and war on tibia - pretty much sucks ass. Idk how anyone can be obsessed with pvp on this game. PvP on OT servers can be pretty fun, though. Honestly, and haters are gonna hate, I think that PvE is more fun and challenging (if you don't go overkill, i.e. doing poi with 15 people lvl 250+) than vanilla tibia PvP.

TL;DR Too much death loss, shit server stability, takes too long to get high enough to see the whole game = why I bot

edit: Can't log in to the game right now because their login servers are offline.... bot for gold buy prem with gold. Why pay money to them when Xenobot is available for use 24/7?
Good point on death loss, a lot of games either don't have it or the loss is so small it becomes an afterthought. And another good point that grinding is only boring for low levels. Hunting at high levels can be really fun, especially being able to explore areas that would be dangerous for low levels. However, you're one of the few who only bot because of death loss. I'd estimate 98+% of botters would still bot even if death loss was removed completely.

[Daniel-Sp]

There are MANY aspects to be discussed but the most important of all:

DOES NOT exists any game that don't have any cheating. Tibia won't be different as its so popular and yes, its SO boring to level up or skill.

The objective of CIP is the same of any other company: make cash. If their custormers are satisfied or not, don't matter. I'm certainly that tibia is earning money as NEVER before and it grows everyday.

8, 10 years ago.. Me and my friends and a BIG range of players had an 13-16 years old average.. we played and had fun. Nowadays we just play because the addiction of that time reminds us good moments. The difference is that nowadays the internet is a easier place to deal , not too burocratic and the most important: we are older, we gained a consumer power that we didn't have when everything started years before.

If I didn't have any experience with tibia before I'm certainly that I would never play this game with my actual age ( 25 ).

[jo3bingham]

To those who say CipSoft has tried to "join" the botters, because they can't "beat" them:

Well, consider a lot of other games added functionality such as auto grinding, whereby their character could be left for hours in one spot, and it would walk out to a creature, kill it, and return to the spot. That would be "joining" the botters. The reason behind the aimbot is because it is physically impossible to detect if someone is aiming manually or using click reuse, purely because click reuse can be so heavily manipulated by the end user. It takes about 3 lines of code (rather heavy duty code, but non the less only 3 lines) to create a FUD aimbot (or at least click reuse), and not much more to create an actual aimbot which would click a target. Probably closer to 20 lines though.

The reality of the situation is that CIP have two options. They can either go ahead full steam, piss off half their customers, and continue to struggle through difficult times as they are, or they can actually take notes on what the real community is saying and excel in what they should be.

Method 1 (shit one):
Continue to fight the impossible battle against bots.

Pros:
Community orientated players are not so displeased as with method 2.
They retain whatever dignity and respect they have, from those in the community who respect them for maintaining an honest game.
They play an honest game, and keep everything straight.
Could encourage role-play.

Cons:
Bots will always prevail, as long as the client is as manipulatable in such a way that it currently is.
There is a definitive end, people will eventually get sick of it and give up, then bots will rule, then the competition will cease, and the servers will become empty and haunted.
They lose the respect of the honest player.

Method 2 (good one):
Stop the fight, implement features which encourage access to higher level zones sooner (either through level advancement or through an cleverly designed system allowing instance based questing).

Pros:
All players will have equal access to the full content of the game within a reasonable time frame.
Bots become redundant due to the unique nature of the plan.
Encourages players who enjoy the community aspect of the game to play more, discourages players from botting.

Cons:
Respect is lost, those who still have it today will inevitably lose it shortly after the integration.
The game could potentially lose some stability from the players who are regular and reliable at paying.

The fact is, they will never cease to exist as a games company, and they will always try very hard to maintain Tibia as a playable game because of the history of it.
Decreasing experience from grinding and increasing experience from questing, events, raids, and other roleplaying would, in my opinion, be the sweet spot in the middle. Roleplaying would be popular, grinding would not. They could balance it out to where the new experience gaining system through roleplaying would actually be more rewarding/faster than grinding is now. Events/bosses could be instance-oriented for a whole day instead of a certain time so that all players would have an equal opportunity to take advantage of it. Of course, monster loot and quest loot would have to be altered to make the system work and be more appealing. I think both sides would like this system over the current one, but that's just me.

There are MANY aspects to be discussed but the most important of all:

DOES NOT exists any game that don't have any cheating. Tibia won't be different as its so popular and yes, its SO boring to level up or skill.

The objective of CIP is the same of any other company: make cash. If their custormers are satisfied or not, don't matter. I'm certainly that tibia is earning money as NEVER before and it grows everyday.

8, 10 years ago.. Me and my friends and a BIG range of players had an 13-16 years old average.. we played and had fun. Nowadays we just play because the addiction of that time reminds us good moments. The difference is that nowadays the internet is a easier place to deal , not too burocratic and the most important: we are older, we gained a consumer power that we didn't have when everything started years before.

If I didn't have any experience with tibia before I'm certainly that I would never play this game with my actual age ( 25 ).
Of course cheating is present in every game, but tell me one game where cavebotting is as widespread as it is on Tibia. Maybe a couple of obscure games no one has really heard of (like Tibia), but as far as popular, well-known games there aren't any (at least any that come to mind). Though, I do agree with you, if I found Tibia today and not when I was 14 I probably wouldn't play it.

[XtrmJosh]

I really like this, sort of solves the main reason I bot. They've probably already considered this and run some numbers and figured that they'll lose money in the end if people can see the full content of the game with less time spent playing it. In it's current state, the game pretty much blows, I really don't know why I play it - probably nostalgia.

The death loss IMO is actually quite fair. If you think about the style of the game, it is intended that people play it for at least a year. If you consider that, after one year of gaming ANY halfwit can easily reach level 200 in that time (excluding a few slightly special people who aren't so invested in gaming, who are less likely to die anyway), it becomes a bit unrealistic for the death penalty to be any lower. I encourage players to get over death quickly, for the sole reason that in reality the time people spend crying about it they could easily regain their lost experience. On top of that, except for DDoS attacks and unforeseen idiocy on team mates parts, death is solely caused by the deceased.

It's been suggested many times to do instancing, but never accepted because other games already do it. Realistically, that is never an excuse not to do it. Sure, some faggots will scream and shout "dafuq you doing to this game?!" but they won't accept that actually it's gonna make the game more fun, more optional, and more conceivable by more people. On top of that, consider if they implement an instance system some WoW players might hear about it and give it a try, and as Tibia doesn't have a monthly subscription requirement, more people will be encouraged.

Beyond the already mentioned reasoning, this removes the issues that arise from a single layer map, those such as quest service hogging (prevalent on Olympa and many PVP servers). It also reduces the risk of accidental skulls, and it would encourage people to stop bitching and crying so much about PVP, teams not joining in during wars, and other shit like that. It also introduces the possibility of cross server communications, as the most sensible way to introduce such a system is by adding new "instance servers" which are accessible by all other servers. After they would see how successful the first instance system becomes, they would probably begin to shut down the quiet servers (lol Ocera) and merge them in order to introduce more instance servers with less expenditure...

[XtrmJosh]

Decreasing experience from grinding and increasing experience from questing, events, raids, and other roleplaying would, in my opinion, be the sweet spot in the middle. Roleplaying would be popular, grinding would not. They could balance it out to where the new experience gaining system through roleplaying would actually be more rewarding/faster than grinding is now. Events/bosses could be instance-oriented for a whole day instead of a certain time so that all players would have an equal opportunity to take advantage of it. Of course, monster loot and quest loot would have to be altered to make the system work and be more appealing. I think both sides would like this system over the current one, but that's just me.

Of course cheating is present in every game, but tell me one game where cavebotting is as widespread as it is on Tibia. Maybe a couple of obscure games no one has really heard of (like Tibia), but as far as popular, well-known games there aren't any (at least any that come to mind). Though, I do agree with you, if I found Tibia today and not when I was 14 I probably wouldn't play it.

Sounds like a fair system, questing is far more enjoyable by almost everyone than hunting. I've seen many a player stop botting at level 200-300 because it is just pointless. I agree with the sentiment that level 400 / 500 / 600 is more appealing due to the fact that you're gaining one up on more people, but I don't think the lack of a level cap is realistically an issue. (trying to cover earlier points in the discussion here so bare with me). If anything, I prefer to be a level 200 in a quest as opposed to a level 400. A level 400 can survive almost anything (with the right team) with no risk. A level 200, however, has far greater difficulties. For those reasons, I don't see the level cap as an issue except for under the current circumstances where the ability to lure and target specific players to take "control" of a certain server is prevalent.

[Daniel-Sp]

Of course cheating is present in every game, but tell me one game where cavebotting is as widespread as it is on Tibia. Maybe a couple of obscure games no one has really heard of (like Tibia), but as far as popular, well-known games there aren't any (at least any that come to mind). Though, I do agree with you, if I found Tibia today and not when I was 14 I probably wouldn't play it.

I don't know any ... As I dont know any game that take you 20-25 days to get one lvl ( manually).. hehe

[XtrmJosh]

I don't know any ... As I dont know any game that take you 20-25 days to get one lvl ( manually).. hehe

If you know your character it doesn't take 20-25 days to get one level. I will state here that the death penalty at level 300+ is a bit harsh. For instance I died a few times on level 400 on HolmaN's RP, and that was a hairy pain in the ass... Hit 397 a couple of times...

[DarkRoses]

Haven't thought a whole lot about this but after reading this thread I could not help but get an opinion about this.
There would just be a matter of time (as you mentioned) before someone creates a bot and there will only be a matter of time before you see people leveling to 400 within 3 months doing just quests. There will be bot profiles for the diff. questing places and man, to make questing, raiding and events the main way of leveling they would have to revamp a lot. It would take lots and lots of dedication from their side and along lots of time.
I would love to see CipSoft developing and releasing game as a free-to-play 2D game tho, would be really cool.
However, I personally don't think this would bring back old players, this game is old. People who played this game when they were young have grown up and gotten a "real life". (Real life defined as family, job own apartment, house etc.) Tibia will never be as popular as it once was. Everyone nowadays is hyped for other games such as WoW, LoL, BF3. There's endless amounts of choices.

But at the end of it all, I think that if CipSoft would make a good job with this (If they really tried) there would be an increase of players.

[Spectrus]

That level race is so ingrained in the culture now, that anything short of a completely clean slate is unlikely to fix it. If they tried to shift more towards raids, the raids would get botted.

[jo3bingham]

Sounds like a fair system, questing is far more enjoyable by almost everyone than hunting. I've seen many a player stop botting at level 200-300 because it is just pointless. I agree with the sentiment that level 400 / 500 / 600 is more appealing due to the fact that you're gaining one up on more people, but I don't think the lack of a level cap is realistically an issue. (trying to cover earlier points in the discussion here so bare with me). If anything, I prefer to be a level 200 in a quest as opposed to a level 400. A level 400 can survive almost anything (with the right team) with no risk. A level 200, however, has far greater difficulties. For those reasons, I don't see the level cap as an issue except for under the current circumstances where the ability to lure and target specific players to take "control" of a certain server is prevalent.
You gave a great reason to implement a level cap; difficulty. CipSoft has to keep implementing stronger creatures/bosses just for these high levels to keep them from getting bored, but then these creatures/bosses aren't possible to defeat to players who aren't such a high level. A level cap would give everyone a fair chance, and CipSoft could introduce new creatures/bosses that would need to be taken on by teams and not just one level 600. However, implementing a level cap would take away one of Tibia's unique features, and it would decrease competition. You could even argue that it would make Tibia look communistic instead of democratic, haha.

[jo3bingham]

That level race is so ingrained in the culture now, that anything short of a completely clean slate is unlikely to fix it. If they tried to shift more towards raids, the raids would get botted.
Unfortunately, a clean slate isn't a viable option. You're right, though, quests, raids, events, etc. would be botted, but it would make the game more fun. I bot because walking around the same cave, in the same pattern (because of respawn), for hours at a time isn't any fun. Having to run across the map to kill something or obtain something for a reward and a lot of experience would be a lot more fun, a lot more fun. It's the same reason why tasks are so popular.

[Spectrus]

Unfortunately, a clean slate isn't a viable option. You're right, though, quests, raids, events, etc. would be botted, but it would make the game more fun. I bot because walking around the same cave, in the same pattern (because of respawn), for hours at a time isn't any fun. Having to run across the map to kill something or obtain something for a reward and a lot of experience would be a lot more fun, a lot more fun. It's the same reason why tasks are so popular.

Competing with bots is a big reason legitimate players leave the game. Raids/Events where time is of the essence would not be something that real players could compete against a bot in. I'm not sure they would be all that helpful. (Sorry for being cynical.)

[jo3bingham]

Competing with bots is a big reason legitimate players leave the game. Raids/Events where time is of the essence would not be something that real players could compete against a bot in. I'm not sure they would be all that helpful. (Sorry for being cynical.)
That's why instance-based raids/events were suggested. It doesn't make a lot of sense to do it that way, but it would make it fair for everyone. Of course, this isn't possible with the current client and game engine, which is why they'd have to start at square one.

[Spectrus]

That's why instance-based raids/events were suggested. It doesn't make a lot of sense to do it that way, but it would make it fair for everyone. Of course, this isn't possible with the current client and game engine, which is why they'd have to start at square one.

It seems unlikely that Cipsoft would ever be able to develop a system that botters could not find a way to abuse. (i.e. camping boss respawns, leading guilds blocking people from accessing them, etc.) Unfortunately, this whole thread of brainstorming fixes seems to me like an exercise in futility, as Cipsoft has shown time and time again that they will encourage the grinding mechanic of the game (Yalahar, Some of the tasks like 4k hydras and 6.6k demons).

[XtrmJosh]

You gave a great reason to implement a level cap; difficulty. CipSoft has to keep implementing stronger creatures/bosses just for these high levels to keep them from getting bored, but then these creatures/bosses aren't possible to defeat to players who aren't such a high level. A level cap would give everyone a fair chance, and CipSoft could introduce new creatures/bosses that would need to be taken on by teams and not just one level 600. However, implementing a level cap would take away one of Tibia's unique features, and it would decrease competition. You could even argue that it would make Tibia look communistic instead of democratic, haha.

Democracy is a real winner though, if they would listen to the community botting would not be such an issue. I, for one, would stop botting if I didn't see a requirement to, though I know others would continue. I barely bot as it is, I have a 250 knight waiting to be played, and a 50 ED waiting to be botted to a level at which I could enjoy playing it. The other realisation they need to have is one that in reality the botters are those with common sense. I mean, if you don't enjoy grinding why the fuck do you do it? There are other options. I don't play games to bore myself, nor do I do it for community. Admittedly, I can hunt much more comfortably when I have people to talk to, but I also enjoy programming in silence, as well as sitting in Skype chatting and mapping for OT servers. That's life, I enjoy things more and less with conversation, and I find things easier and more difficult with it. It should have no impact on my decision on how I want to play. I have no desire to circulate a cave and kill the same creatures, tiring my wrist and boring myself shitless at the same time.

A level cap seems incredibly non-beneficial. Those who don't want to find everything easy should be able to cap their own experience (or at least store it in a stone of wisdom or similar should CipSoft ever release an update for which they could use a higher level... That system would be fair and balanced, and it would allow all players an opportunity to play how they want regardless of level and all that jazz. I even enjoy hunting tombs and stuff on my level 50 ED, it's fun to go with some friends and play a challenge. An artificial level cap for individuals, which is non-transferable would be ideal, and a global level cap would be very diminishing to the game. I think we're decided on that unless someone pipes up with some other reasoning...


Unfortunately, a clean slate isn't a viable option. You're right, though, quests, raids, events, etc. would be botted, but it would make the game more fun. I bot because walking around the same cave, in the same pattern (because of respawn), for hours at a time isn't any fun. Having to run across the map to kill something or obtain something for a reward and a lot of experience would be a lot more fun, a lot more fun. It's the same reason why tasks are so popular.

They would be botted, but then the botters would be self nominated idiots. The main reason being that they would have the choice of playing both gaming styles, but still decide that they don't enjoy either method enough to bother to play it. Where is the sense? Admittedly, the higher level instances may be more fun, but it still wouldn't make much sense.


Competing with bots is a big reason legitimate players leave the game. Raids/Events where time is of the essence would not be something that real players could compete against a bot in. I'm not sure they would be all that helpful. (Sorry for being cynical.)

Competing with botters is exactly what they need to do. Realistically, there is no other way to combat it. I mean, they stand no chance at stopping botting with the game in its current state, because of how easy it is to bot, and the options available to botters are far greater than the options available to CipSoft. It just isn't feasible at all for them to continue to combat them other than through their existing (terrible) system.

[jo3bingham]

It seems unlikely that Cipsoft would ever be able to develop a system that botters could not find a way to abuse. (i.e. camping boss respawns, leading guilds blocking people from accessing them, etc.) Unfortunately, this whole thread of brainstorming fixes seems to me like an exercise in futility, as Cipsoft has shown time and time again that they will encourage the grinding mechanic of the game (Yalahar, Some of the tasks like 4k hydras and 6.6k demons).
True, it is futile, but I like to hear others' opinions, and it gets a nice discussion going other than "Y I has 2 w8 two days to use bot?! I got scammed and it's all my fault because I'm an idiot, but I don't like accepting responsibility so I'm going to complain and blame someone else. How do I use a script? And this popular script doesn't work for me, but works for dozens of other users, what gives?!"

[Mish]

I just love to bot.

The feeling of advancing further without wasting time and nerves is great. Coming back after a college day and seeing 300k profit and 2 lvls is nice. If Warden wasn't so effective I'd bot in WoW again as well.

There's no deeper sense or meaning involved. People enjoy min-maxing things.

[Spectrus]

True, it is futile, but I like to hear others' opinions, and it gets a nice discussion going other than "Y I has 2 w8 two days to use bot?! I got scammed and it's all my fault because I'm an idiot, but I don't like accepting responsibility so I'm going to complain and blame someone else. How do I use a script? And this popular script doesn't work for me, but works for dozens of other users, what gives?!"

True enough, haha. I feel like threads like these are the reason for the Tibia clone start-ups that never actually make it to the main stage (Phobos (http://phobosonline.com/), etc). People start discussing shortcomings of Tibia, and then decide 'Hey let's make our own!'.

On topic though, the idea of touch controls is interesting, but then included in that complete restructure we'd need a new UI that would work better on tablets (if that's the direction you're going with touch controls, I know that laptops are seeing touchscreens a lot lately).

[jo3bingham]

True enough, haha. I feel like threads like these are the reason for the Tibia clone start-ups that never actually make it to the main stage (Phobos (http://phobosonline.com/), etc). People start discussing shortcomings of Tibia, and then decide 'Hey let's make our own!'.

On topic though, the idea of touch controls is interesting, but then included in that complete restructure we'd need a new UI that would work better on tablets (if that's the direction you're going with touch controls, I know that laptops are seeing touchscreens a lot lately).
Those people are idiots, I don't have time for that, haha.

The client needs a new UI in general. It's not the 90s anymore.

[Spectrus]

Those people are idiots, I don't have time for that, haha.

The client needs a new UI in general. It's not the 90s anymore.

But then it needs new graphics, and then... and then... At what point does it become a completely different game? I guess as long as the core mechanics stay the same...

[xiaospike]

But then it needs new graphics, and then... and then... At what point does it become a completely different game? I guess as long as the core mechanics stay the same...

Tibia 2?

[jo3bingham]

But then it needs new graphics, and then... and then... At what point does it become a completely different game? I guess as long as the core mechanics stay the same...

New graphics aren't necessary, but the GUI could use a facelift, and inventory should be movable to the left side of the screen, etc.. Heck, they could go the way of the flash client. Also, the new walking animation reminds me of a high-stepping horse...awful.

[RoxZin xD]

The thing with botting is that CipSoft took too long to delete characters instantly while botting, and took too long to make a working system to prevent botting. Like... When did you, as a simple example, start working on bot programming, Jo3Bingham? 2007? 2008? That's... minimum 5 years ago? When CipSoft started doing something against botters? I remember the first day of banwave as it was yesterday, March 3rd, 2009. That's too long, to be honest. And then, the hole without banishing no one when NeoBot was popular, it pretty much fucked Tibia up more. Not meaning their own choices while updating the game year after year.

It's pretty sad to see the game how it is, though. I remember the first time I played, I was amazed with the graphics (YES!) and how much it didn't show anything with good graphics like on MU Online (which was what I played before Tibia), and how cool it was to imagine myself inside a medieval world. Now I look at Tibia like: meh. It would be better for CipSoft to make another game, based on Tibia, but with different approaches and a working anti-bot system. Maybe someone teach them how to program something :P

[xiaospike]

The thing with botting is that CipSoft took too long to delete characters instantly while botting, and took too long to make a working system to prevent botting. Like... When did you, as a simple example, start working on bot programming, Jo3Bingham? 2007? 2008? That's... minimum 5 years ago? When CipSoft started doing something against botters? I remember the first day of banwave as it was yesterday, March 3rd, 2009. That's too long, to be honest. And then, the hole without banishing no one when NeoBot was popular, it pretty much fucked Tibia up more. Not meaning their own choices while updating the game year after year.

It's pretty sad to see the game how it is, though. I remember the first time I played, I was amazed with the graphics (YES!) and how much it didn't show anything with good graphics like on MU Online (which was what I played before Tibia), and how cool it was to imagine myself inside a medieval world. Now I look at Tibia like: meh. It would be better for CipSoft to make another game, based on Tibia, but with different approaches and a working anti-bot system. Maybe someone teach them how to program something :P

MU Online... +10 CDA... JoS... JoB... JoL...

Bye bye tibia.

[Sang]

IMHO they lost it years ago, when they had 2 options:
redo the c++ client from scratch and make it safer, smoother(is that even a word), make harder to bot or easier to detect idk.
create a new shit client in flash (LOL)

and you know what the morons chose, and how it turned out to be.

[RoxZin xD]

IMHO they lost it years ago, when they had 2 options:
redo the c++ client from scratch and make it safer, smoother(is that even a word), make harder to bot or easier to detect idk.
create a new shit client in flash (LOL)

and you know what the morons chose, and how it turned out to be.

+1 on that

[The Rapid]

tl;dr

i botting cuz i like it .

[Defy]

interesting read.. I agree, it's completely dry and tedious to level.. -_-

[lukeryterski]

Botters ruin tibia because they are lazy, and they suck at tibia, that's the main reason for botting. Please do the tibia world a favor and delete this stupid fucking bot forever, you just say this stuff because you're getting rich from it and its bullshit. you are scum just like they dumb fuck ppl that pay for your bot..

[sausting]

umadbrah?
10 months is a long time to hold that rage post in, do you feel better now?

[lukeryterski]

see look this is what i mean when i say "dumb fucks that bot"

[Tibiakid]

Troll.

[Hypn0ticKi11er]

I'm hoping that the new "Retro PVP" servers they're releasing can serve as a kind of "clean slate" as many were mentioning. I truly hope the new server types don't get bland and ruined.

[Lilithwins]

I have never played tibia without bot, and will never do.

[Atheist]

It is true what you say but I think it's just way to late (about 10 years) to do something about botting.

Like you said, Tibia's unlimited leveling and skilling could be considered the problem but they're also what make this game unique.

I personally think that the problem with Tibia has already tainted its core, economy is already completely destroyed and even if you really try to be legit, if you want to make it in this game you are pretty much forced to bot in some way; whether it's by leveling, training skills or magic level, cause if you dont you'll never get anywhere (level and gear wise) it might feel rewarding for a while, like you earned everything you've got, but in the end there will always be a bunch of guys ahead of you, with higher level, more skills and better gear who have spent just a fraction of what you've spent actually PLAYING the game laughing at you for it and it eventually gets to you.

I feel that the main problem with this game is lack of reward or sense of progression, everything being so expensive and everyone being so high in level has set the bar way too high for anyone to attempt to play legit and not just give up in the process and trust me, I know how it feels, 5 years ago I made a knight which I botted skills with, I promised myself I wouldnt bot for experience, I found a sense of "self-righteousness" in only botting for skills, I got 100/100 at early 20's and level'd manually until level 200 which took me little more than a year.

Needless to say I was completely worn out by then, but not because leveling was hard but because I just felt so behind compared to what I knew I could have acomplished in a whole year if I botted. I was broke, unable to better my gear, or buy a decent house, or feel like I had progressed in any way, as all of my friends had acomplished twice of what I had cause they've been botting, I thought I didnt care, I felt proud to have gotten all those levels manually for the first time but still there was this splinter in my mind bugging me with the fact that regardless of all my effort I was just "below average", just another broke level 200 with nothing to show for.

My point is; Tibia's current economy, community, just the whole of the game actually PUSHES you to cheat, not cause of convenience or lazyness, but because it is simply not fun to be forever "average" no matter how much effort you put into it.

Atheist.

[Vegemite_turtle]

I only use the bot because of dieing, im really just sick of loosing all that hard time spent hunting, experience and money.. oh the money for blessings is wayy to much. i use it now for backup. i dont have scripts and i dont use walker, looter, or targeting. all i use it for is back-up support, i love doing quest more then anything but its just too hard to do it when you keep dieing and no one is friendly anymore so its hard to find a team to do them with. i honestly just miss 7.1, they were the days when you trained for hours and actually got to tell everyone your skills and be happy about it... no one even cares what your skills are now because it just means you have spent most of you "tibia life" on offline trainers. i say they should just go back a few updates and give/give more xp for quests,raids atc..

:rolleyes: