The TTIP: USA <--> Europe STOP IT!

[NeeP]

Well we know that currently US lobbyist try to force this new treaty, hidden and closed from the public. We need to stop it else we will have, among other things, american food all over the EU. Many people don't know that in USA chemicals and substances are allowed in food, that are even forbidden in Russia and China as they are highly suspected of causing cancer.
Here's a video which was in a TV documentation:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mrFzvJlVLw
english subtitled, put on youtube subtitles


If you agree, please sign the online petition against the TTIP, it doesn't cost anything

https://www.campact.de/ttip/appell/teilnehmen/

[NeeP]

posted new video, now with english subtitles.

[Evancion]

I'm an American myself, if you find food that contain hazardous chemicals or whatever, just simply do not eat it. I don't know why this is so hard.
On top of that, generally most (if not all) chemicals are not susceptible to cancer ( I cannot think of any that does ), although, they are probably unhealthy (see obesity, liver damages, heart attacks, ect).

[NeeP]

I'm an American myself, if you find food that contain hazardous chemicals or whatever, just simply do not eat it. I don't know why this is so hard.
On top of that, generally most (if not all) chemicals are not susceptible to cancer ( I cannot think of any that does ), although, they are probably unhealthy (see obesity, liver damages, heart attacks, ect).

Well, it will go like the already allowed chemicals aswell: they will get numbered and companies just mix them into products and because of those numbers it's way harder to find out which ones are the "bad" ones causing cancer. Just watch the documentory. It says, that those substances are even forbidden, among others, in China, Russia and the EU ofc. The reason, that's what they say aswell, is cuz they are highly suspected to cause cancer. Also why should dangerous products be offered in the first place? that's why food quality laws are made for: to protect people from hazardous chemicals before they even reach the customer. Your sentence "just dont eat it" is the biggest bullshit I heard. Not everyone knows/will know which chemicals are bad and which not, in which products they are included and whatever. Also not all people follow healthy food rules. For example those chemicals used in "sugar-free" products aren't healthy aswell, still everyone buys/eats that stuff cuz in common sense of the people its only sugar which is the bad stuff... You can't rely on everyone's common sense that he checks for chemicals or not. Also why should I spend countless minutes scanning every product/food i want to buy for dangerous chemicals? Would be pretty annoying
I don't even talk about the lower food quality standards. Because of lesser hygenic standards, killed chickens which get fabricated to food, will be thrown into a pool of chlorine. "this should kill the bacteries" LOL'd, yea why not throw the chicken food into a barrel filled with radioactive waste? Has pretty much the same effect... At least it doesnt taste like if you drank all the water of your city's indoor swimming pool...
Why should we lower our quality standards which (for a fact) are better than the US standards?


And it's not only about food. This TTIP would allow american companies to use "fracking". It means that to get oil from deep below, you just pump chemicals into the ground so idk how exactly but they pump the oil up. The risks for the enviroment are enourmous and a good example is the already done treaty between canada and USA: they had +/- the same like the TTIP and they allowed fracking, then cuz many ppl feared for big damages of the enviroment, ppl made the gov forbid that fracking, and now US companies went to court, saying they lost billions of dollars of revenue... They give a shit about the enviroment...

And the treaty is made by 90% just american lobbyists and companies... (which just are greedy for the money, they dont give a fuck about other people) that's not how democracy works, to make/change laws and make important treaties without the democratic elected responsible persons...

There's much much more. just watch the video, its no fake or whatever and its subtitled in english so u should understand it

[Evancion]

First off, I understand what you're trying to say, but you're blowing some things out of proportion and are incorrect in a lot of areas.
The video says nowhere that chlorine is a very hazardous chemical, all they said was it is being used to clean food, however, the EU disallows it.
If you actually did your research, you'd find out why chlorine is being used to clean food and with correct and advanced regulations (http://ucfoodsafety.ucdavis.edu/files/26437.pdf), it makes the food much more healthier than without using chlorine.
The whole purpose of chlorine is to kill bacteria, that's why they use it in food, that's why they use it in water, that's why they use it swimming pools, that's why they use it for a lot of things.
However, the most important thing is to have proper and acceptable regulations (like the ones in the US) to determine how much chlorine is used. With these regulations, chlorine will make anything healthier by eliminated unwanted bacteria.
The video is just a bunch of uneducated people trying to impose fear among others because it benefits corporations through profits, not because the food is hazardous.
It's just like Jenny McCarthy trying to tell parents not to vaccinate children because it causes autism and a lot of people believed it, but she's been proven to be wrong countless of times. It's called brainwashing.
So, for you to call chlorine a radioactive waste in this particular topic is absurd and for you to say "for a fact" when it comes to claiming EU's food regulations are better than US is absurd as well.

And yes, fracking is a HUGE topic in the US/Canada. What it means is it shoots water at insanely high pressure at shale underground, when this occurs, the shale will then release natural gas that we can use in our everyday lives.
Yes, there are chemicals being used, some harmless, some harmful and this is what people are fighting against. Also it uses a lot of water, so water is being drained from a lot of places just to frack.

[NeeP]

First off, I understand what you're trying to say, but you're blowing some things out of proportion and are incorrect in a lot of areas.
The video says nowhere that chlorine is a very hazardous chemical, all they said was it is being used to clean food, however, the EU disallows it.
If you actually did your research, you'd find out why chlorine is being used to clean food and with correct and advanced regulations (http://ucfoodsafety.ucdavis.edu/files/26437.pdf), it makes the food much more healthier than without using chlorine.
The whole purpose of chlorine is to kill bacteria, that's why they use it in food, that's why they use it in water, that's why they use it swimming pools, that's why they use it for a lot of things.
However, the most important thing is to have proper and acceptable regulations (like the ones in the US) to determine how much chlorine is used. With these regulations, chlorine will make anything healthier by eliminated unwanted bacteria.
The video is just a bunch of uneducated people trying to impose fear among others because it benefits corporations through profits, not because the food is hazardous.
It's just like Jenny McCarthy trying to tell parents not to vaccinate children because it causes autism and a lot of people believed it, but she's been proven to be wrong countless of times. It's called brainwashing.
So, for you to call chlorine a radioactive waste in this particular topic is absurd and for you to say "for a fact" when it comes to claiming EU's food regulations are better than US is absurd as well.

And yes, fracking is a HUGE topic in the US/Canada. What it means is it shoots water at insanely high pressure at shale underground, when this occurs, the shale will then release natural gas that we can use in our everyday lives.
Yes, there are chemicals being used, some harmless, some harmful and this is what people are fighting against. Also it uses a lot of water, so water is being drained from a lot of places just to frack.

I did never say that chlorine is a radioactive material, I was just comparing it as a joke like sarcasm...
it's for a fact that EU's food regulations are better than the US ones. You just see that by what chemicals are allowed in the US if even in Russia and China (=countries who usually dont care about their people) have forbidden these chemicals...
I agree with you that proper regulations are important. That's why politicians and scientists and consumers and health protections groups or whatever its called should participate aswell to make this treaty. But, fact again, they are not allowed. It's 90% just companies and US lobbyists.
Besides the positive effects for Germany atleast (which is the strongest economical country in the EU) are really small. It's not worth taking these risks and then getting just a small increase of turnover and export sales...
About fracking: it's currently not allowed to do that in germany, not sure about the EU. US companies want to get that into the TTIP cuz they know they would never get it through the EU laws in a democratic way.
Also it uses an immense amount of water which is just pure waste...

[sausting]

hey now, if the fracking company comes and months later your well is dry and can't provide water for your livestock...they cut you a check. how fair is that :rolleyes:

[Syntax]

Why don't you read up on TTIP yourself before relying on a Youtube video.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ttip/questions-and-answers/#eu-standards-and-health-protection
They answer concerns about GMO and hormone fed animals further down.

I understand you may have some concerns of them not following through with those words, but in that instance the problem isn't TTIP, it's your government.

[NeeP]

Why don't you read up on TTIP yourself before relying on a Youtube video.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ttip/questions-and-answers/#eu-standards-and-health-protection
They answer concerns about GMO and hormone fed animals further down.

Ive aswell watched a youtube "propaganda" clip of EU + read this :P
But I highly doubt they won't bring this shit american hormone fed animals here cuz that's what american companies are hoping: to get their products (which are locked out from market in europe atm) to the european market and create a plus in turnover.
And in this text, some points are just vaguely answered. For instance, the question about the secret negotiations is answered by "not letting the other player see one's card" but isn't that always the case when you have 2 different parties discussing? Still you get public info or the already fixed points. Also it doesn't answer why there's 90% just lobbyists and company representants. I mean isn't it clear that their first goal is to increase the profit for their company? Why no politicians or others like consumer and health protection organisations? That's why polictians exist: to decide over important aspects representating a whole nation or people trying to make it for the good or to discuss atleast.

[NeeP]

hey now, if the fracking company comes and months later your well is dry and can't provide water for your livestock...they cut you a check. how fair is that :rolleyes:

true Oo but that's how the US companies do it :s

[gabbe]

Dat language, tho! :P

[Turnslide]

TTIP is probably one of the most important agreements EU can sign in many years to come. It's funny you talk about lobbyism and stuff but you don't know anything about this case except for a friggin youtube video. This is typical knee-jerk reactions from people who frankly, knows fuck all about the subject - no offence.

An open trade agreement means that firms that used to have special rights lose them - so guess why the anti-TTIP campaign is suddenly starting to gain traction (one of the industries working against the TTIP is the tobacco industry). In terms of pure economic stats, the TTIP would improve the overall EU GNP by 1-1.5%, enough to get us out of the crisis.

There is zero changes in the consumer protection as those would have to be passed in the national parliaments (and might require public vote if Courts deem it as giving away sovereignty). TTIP rather aligns product regulations and standards which would reduce costs. It's silly that companies have to have their products tested for the same 4-5 times instead of making some overall guidelines.


e: Re Fracking: UK has already started doing it. The only reason more EU countries isn't doing it is because
A) A lot of EU nations have a huge amount of groundwater which people forgets counts as a national resource as well, and which is worth more than gas
B) A lot of the shale gas in EU is very inaccessible and thus not economical beneficial.

While I do have some concerns about fracking, there is also a huge geopolitical benefit to gain from it since it would cut the EU reliance on Russian gas (which Russia more or less uses as a diplomatic weapon)

Re: "Hormone fed animals". 75% of the antibiotics used in Denmark is used by pig farmers.