Regarding Confirmation Keys

[Daniel-Sp]

Hello guys,

I have been latelly involved on some deals and been warned about RKs/CKs and how they work. I have asked a few friends of mine that are really close to buying/selling chars day by day and I have seen that there isn't a general concern about this subject. This way, I decided to open this thread to discuss.

Straight to the points, there are two faces: The Bullshit and the true.

The true: NO MATTER how many confirmation keys you purchase and use, until its expiry date, ANY older confirmation key is valid.

The bullshit: CIP says that a confirmation key is invalid at the moment the new confirmation key is entered to create a new confirmation key.

So, the newest tip to purchase an account is (from a resseler or not, with a middleman or not): CHECK THE ACCOUNT'S PAYMENT HISTORY

NEVER purchase an account if it has a confirmation key ordered until 6 month of the registry-change date. Before sending the cash after the registry change, take a look if the old owner didn't ordered any key until that date. If you are using a middleman, ask him for that before sending the cash to the seller.

Sadly I'm sure that CIP is giving a fuck for this fact since they don't allow account trading and its the only reason to have trouble with this error.

Anyway, if any of the readers of this thread want to go ahead and report it for a fix, I can give 2 suggestions:

- Correct this shit to what they say the do and they don't.
- Set a CK status USED apart from SENT on the payment history screen. So we could see if the sent RK was used or not.


THE PROOF

smeg ordered two CK keys and used the newer first and the tried the old one and, surprise? BOTH worked. With this, we can consider that a new key don't have the power to make a old one invalid.


UPDATE:

I received the second confirmation key this morning and decided to test it.

First I used the confirmation key that I ordered on the 23th of July and I got a new recovery key for the account:

http://i.imgur.com/ITAFyOl.jpg

About 10 minutes later I used the confirmation key that I ordered on the 16hth of July and I got a new recovery again:

http://i.imgur.com/fTM0k4i.jpg

That means, a confirmation key doesn't become invalid if a newer one is being used first. So accounts can be hacked for 6 months if the old owner still has a confirmation key for the account.


Thanks for now :)

[moambeiro]

What a good info. :)

[Hammertime]

You're welcome, hopefully the information is correct. There will be a lot less scamming accounts back if this is true. :)

[Stusse]

What happens then if you have a CK and order a new one, once they used the 1st CK and the 2nd is on its way, Will the 2nd expire then or what happens if you enter the 2nd CK once the 1st been used?

/Stusse

[Daniel-Sp]

What happens then if you have a CK and order a new one, once they used the 1st CK and the 2nd is on its way, Will the 2nd expire then or what happens if you enter the 2nd CK once the 1st been used?

/Stusse

According to what was said at the link I posted by a CipSoft member, a new key cancell any older than that one but older keys wont cancel newer ones.

So, if I have one key and order 3 more, recieve all them and use this older one, I will still be able to use those new ones.

[smeg]

What happens then if you have a CK and order a new one, once they used the 1st CK and the 2nd is on its way, Will the 2nd expire then or what happens if you enter the 2nd CK once the 1st been used?

/Stusse

The second confirmation key will still be valid if you use the first one after you have ordered another one. 100% positive about that (own experience). I'm not sure yet if it's true that an older confirmation key will become invalid once a newer one is being used, but I will find that out soon and will post it in this thread.

[HjugO]

So, example. Old Owner bought CK and next sold character without CK, and after 30 days (Changing Registation Name) New Owner bought new CK, so first CK will be invalid and new CK will be valid.

[Daniel-Sp]

So, example. Old Owner bought CK and next sold character without CK, and after 30 days (Changing Registation Name) New Owner bought new CK, so first CK will be invalid and new CK will be valid.

The old CK will be unless only when the new one is used.

[Y2Quakepc2]

thanks, good info

[Oif]

Wow, I actually learned a lot of information that I did not know previously.
Awesome tips! :)

[Chuitox]

Cool.

[Stusse]

So in other words;

Seller sells a char with CK, minute before he sells it he order a new one. Buyer uses the CK and lives happy, once new CK arrives to Seller - Will he be able to use it to take back the char or wil it expire upon usage of the old CK?

/Stusse

[smeg]

So in other words;

Seller sells a char with CK, minute before he sells it he order a new one. Buyer uses the CK and lives happy, once new CK arrives to Seller - Will he be able to use it to take back the char or wil it expire upon usage of the old CK?

/Stusse

Yes, the seller is able to do that, the new confirmation key won't expire upon using an older one. In fact, the seller can do that untill the registration of the account changes to the buyer his information, so 30 days.

The buyer can check in the payment history of the account when new recovery keys have been ordered though.

http://i.imgur.com/HA2opfF.png

What I am curious about is if the old confirmation key is still valid if a newer one is used. So once I receive the confirmation key that I ordered on the 23th of July I will use that one. After that, I will check if the one that I ordered on the 16th of July still works.

[Uranas]

Yes, the seller is able to do that, the new confirmation key won't expire upon using an older one. In fact, the seller can do that untill the registration of the account changes to the buyer his information, so 30 days.

The buyer can check in the payment history of the account when new recovery keys have been ordered though.

http://i.imgur.com/HA2opfF.png

What I am curious about is if the old confirmation key is still valid if a newer one is used. So once I receive the confirmation key that I ordered on the 23th of July I will use that one. After that, I will check if the one that I ordered on the 16th of July still works.

The old one will work still.. I have had multiple accounts hacked back in the last year, ck last about 6 months and do not become void or invalid upon a newer one being used..

[Daniel-Sp]

The old one will work still.. I have had multiple accounts hacked back in the last year, ck last about 6 months and do not become void or invalid upon a newer one being used..
HolmaN told that. He sid he tested himself.

Once smeg test it, we weill be sure that the system is worng so we will have a real example.

Anyway, its a clear mistake from the CK system and its really serious if its true so this could be reported to CIP. Even knowing that a report for fixing something that wont bring any profit for them is unless.

[Uranas]

HolmaN told that. He sid he tested himself.

Once smeg test it, we weill be sure that the system is worng so we will have a real example.

Anyway, its a clear mistake from the CK system and its really serious if its true so this could be reported to CIP. Even knowing that a report for fixing something that wont bring any profit for them is unless.

I know I myself have lost hundreds of dollars b.c of this :/

[HolmaN]

I tested it before they changed the keys from two to six months. They might as well have changed it at the same time.
Patiently waiting to see if it's as before.

[Userted]

There can be multiple active conf keys if none are used but only one active recovery key, correct?

[smeg]

There can be multiple active conf keys if none are used but only one active recovery key, correct?

Correct. There can be only one active recovery key, if a confirmation key is being used it replaces the old recovery key by a new recovery key, so there can and will be only one active.

[iMike]

This is a silly and serious mistake from Cipsoft...

[smeg]

UPDATE:

I received the second confirmation key this morning and decided to test it.

First I used the confirmation key that I ordered on the 23th of July and I got a new recovery key for the account:

http://i.imgur.com/ITAFyOl.jpg

About 10 minutes later I used the confirmation key that I ordered on the 16hth of July and I got a new recovery again:

http://i.imgur.com/fTM0k4i.jpg

That means, a confirmation key doesn't become invalid if a newer one is being used first. So accounts can be hacked for 6 months if the old owner still has a confirmation key for the account.

[Daniel-Sp]

Holy fuck.,..

[Userted]

That is pretty nasty....
So I guess if there has been an order for a new req key before the data has been changed to your data, you will be hacked for sure

[Daniel-Sp]

First post updated with the true.
moambeiro Hammertime hugo9999 Y2Quakepc2 Oif Chuitox Stusse Uranas HolmaN iMike

Please take a look and consider the steps to prevent you guys from loosing everyting you own up to 6 months after the account is on you.

For now thanks to smeg for spending 10 euros to proof that CIP is a shitty company and deserve the death

[J.Dre]

The bullshit: CIP says that a Recovery key is invalid at the moment the new confirmation key is entered to create a new recovery key.


This is not bullshit. It may take a few moments for the database to update, but the old recovery key (or previous recovery key) will not work if there is a new recovery key. I've been selling and trading accounts for several years. This has been confirmed myself at least 3-4 dozen times. Recovery keys and confirmation keys are different. Confirmation keys do not expire for six months or until used. Recovery keys are replaced when confirmation keys are used. You can order as many confirmation keys as you like.

Tips to help avoid being scammed:


Do not use the account for 31 days or until registration is in your name.
Obviously, do not play on the account until it is yours.
Leave the account empty (no items, equipment, gold, etc.).
Why would you leave valuable items on a character that isn't in your name? Idiots deserve to be scammed.
Request two confirmation keys come the seller.
One for immediate use upon receiving account information, and the other as insurance if they attempt to take it back.
After the account is registered to you, purchase extra services to secure the account.
Purchase a new account name, change the email again, and purchase another confirmation key.
*Important* Do not trade with people who do not have recent successful trades of equal to or greater value than your current trade.
Just because someone bought gold from somebody, doesn't make them trustworthy. If you're buying a character from them, make sure they have character sales in their recent trade history before proceeding. The likelihood of being scammed is drastically reduced if so.
Understand that there is always risk when trading. It does not matter who it is or what their reputation is. Ask for a middle man.
Ask them if they're willing to use a trusted middle man. If so, make sure they understand they will not receive payment until the account is in your name - the middle man will hold the funds until this time. If they agree, there is little to no chance of being scammed, as long as the middle man is trustworthy.

[Daniel-Sp]

This is not bullshit. It may take a few moments for the database to update, but the old recovery key (or previous recovery key) will not work if there is a new recovery key. I've been selling and trading accounts for several years. This has been confirmed myself at least 3-4 dozen times. Recovery keys and confirmation keys are different. Confirmation keys do not expire for six months or until used. Recovery keys are replaced when confirmation keys are used.

Tips to help avoid being scammed:


Do not use the account for 31 days or until registration is in your name.
Obviously, do not play on the account until it is yours.
Leave the account empty (no items, equipment, gold, etc.).
Why would you leave valuable items on a character that isn't in your name? Idiots deserve to be scammed.
Request two confirmation keys come the seller.
One for immediate use upon receiving account information, and the other as insurance if they attempt to take it back.
After the account is registered to you, purchase extra services to secure the account.
Purchase a new account name, change the email again, and purchase another confirmation key.
Do not trade with people who do not have recent successful trades of equal to or greater value than your current trade.
Just because someone bought gold from somebody, doesn't make them trustworthy. If you're buying a character from them, make sure they have character sales in their recent trade history before proceeding. The likelihood of being scammed is drastically reduced if so.
Understand that there is always risk when trading. It does not matter who it is or what their reputation is.


Corrected it. I just confused myself between CK and RK.

Regarding the rest, you are wrong. If the old owner buys a confirmation key before the registry change, he will still be able to hack it back at least to take all your inventory until after 6 months of the CK request.

SO:
- RK never expires
- CK expires in 6 months and its the only way to invalidate it.

I did a mistake but all the rest of the post ( including the proiof ) says that. Idk why did you stopped reading at this phrase you quoted.

So, you trade for years and didn't know that too, since your tips don't cover this case. 2 cks is bullshit since the old owner can hack all your stuff anyway.

[J.Dre]

Corrected it. I just confused myself between CK and RK.

Regarding the rest, you are wrong. If the old owner buys a confirmation key before the registry change, he will still be able to hack it back at least to take all your inventory until after 6 months of the CK request.

SO:
- RK never expires
- CK expires in 6 months and its the only way to invalidate it.

I did a mistake but all the rest of the post ( including the proiof ) says that. Idk why did you stopped reading at this phrase you quoted.

So, you trade for years and didn't know that too, since your tips don't cover this case. 2 cks is bullshit since the old owner can hack all your stuff anyway.

I'm just trying to help. It would behoove you to listen to my advice.

You don't have to be an asshole. Go ahead, don't listen to me and get scammed. I don't give a shit if you get scammed or not. I've never been scammed when trading characters.

Have a good one,

J.Dre

[Daniel-Sp]

I'm just trying to help. It would behoove you to listen to my advice.

You don't have to be an asshole. Go ahead, don't listen to me and get scammed. I don't give a shit if you get scammed or not. I've never been scammed when trading characters.

Have a good one,

J.Dre

Wtf u talking about ?

All I'm saying is that: IF you follow your advices you are not completely safe from getting scammed, Mr. perfect. Accept it. Your help is appreciated but not enough. Whats wrong with that?

You've never been scammed? You are lucky since it was completely possible following your terms.

It is something new over here and I can grantee you that at least 90% of people who is around didn't know that. Just don't be sad that you didnt know. We are always leaning.

Btw, your steps are basic. I have been scammed a bit to learn them in a hard way and the thread is not regarding it. Its only and just about confirmation key mistake from CIP.

[Hammertime]

Daniel-Sp smeg

Thanks for the information. The thread I linked previously is wrong or there is a bug. I'll make a thread about this in technical support and maybe CIP fix/change it.

[Daniel-Sp]

Daniel-Sp smeg

Thanks for the information. The thread I linked previously is wrong or there is a bug. I'll make a thread about this in technical support and maybe CIP fix/change it.

Great.. post here the URL so we will able to follow.

[smeg]

Great.. post here the URL so we will able to follow.

http://forum.tibia.com/forum/?action=thread&threadid=4252294

[Tripkip]

Besides informing people about how NOT TO get scammed you're also informing people on HOW TO scam.

Just Saying man. Im not sure if this is actually helping, Didnt even know that it was showing on you're account page that a new one has been ordered, geuss thats a good thing! :).

On a sidenote, I dont think anyone is gonna wait 6 months for their money, so the best thing to do is to ask the person selling the account for every confirmation key that has been ordered in the las 6 months so u can use them all and make them Invalid.
Daniel-Sp

My advise make a Do and Don't list So you can see all the info in 1 blink.

True's
- Unlimited amount of Confirmation keys can be used.
- Confirmarion Key's wont Cancel one and another
- Confirmation keys are valid for 6 months after their purchase

False
- Don't Buy accounts with Ordered confirmation keys wich u do not own/have.
-

Something like this.

[Daniel-Sp]

Besides informing people about how NOT TO get scammed you're also informing people on HOW TO scam.

Just Saying man. Im not sure if this is actually helping, Didnt even know that it was showing on you're account page that a new one has been ordered, geuss thats a good thing! :)

Reporting a failure is an idea but by Holman and Urana's posts, I'm pretty sure that scammers are abusing it for a while so there's no option than alerting everyone for now. Hopping that CIP fixes it ASAP.

I know they are really bad on hearing us but tbh, with the actual registration/account system there are no bugs.

Hiddin it would make those guys continue with that, lol..

Even for ressellers its kinda easy to jump from it by taking a picture of the letter saying the date of the order vs the letter. I know it could be faked and printed but thats why I underlined the word ressellers, since they suppose to be trustable people.

Let's follow smeg's link and check how it goes... Lets hope for a fast fix since it don't need and client release and, technically talking, looks like really obvious system, should be easy to fix. ( some DB queries during the new RK generation and its done).

[Daniel-Sp]

On a sidenote, I dont think anyone is gonna wait 6 months for their money, so the best thing to do is to ask the person selling the account for every confirmation key that has been ordered in the las 6 months so u can use them all and make them Invalid.
Daniel-Sp


The point is: How would you know that this used key is invalid ? I received the key 123456, used it and generated a RK. Then I sell you the char and give you the key 12345A, it will be as invalid as the used one. For scamming works the same..I haven't used the key and give you a fake one.

[Hammertime]

Daniel-Sp, Alright bro.
Here is the link to Tibia.
http://forum.tibia.com/forum/?action=thread&threadid=4252294

Sorry just noticed, smeg posted ^

[Hammertime]

Besides informing people about how NOT TO get scammed you're also informing people on HOW TO scam.

Just Saying man. Im not sure if this is actually helping, Didnt even know that it was showing on you're account page that a new one has been ordered, geuss thats a good thing! :).

On a sidenote, I dont think anyone is gonna wait 6 months for their money, so the best thing to do is to ask the person selling the account for every confirmation key that has been ordered in the las 6 months so u can use them all and make them Invalid.
Daniel-Sp

My advise make a Do and Don't list So you can see all the info in 1 blink.

True's
- Unlimited amount of Confirmation keys can be used.
- Confirmarion Key's wont Cancel one and another
- Confirmation keys are valid for 6 months after their purchase

False
- Don't Buy accounts with Ordered confirmation keys wich u do not own/have.
-

Something like this.

I agree about the scamming part, it's kinda scary.

If a well-known account seller really wanted to, they could sell several accounts within a 6 month period make thousands of dollars.

Then take all the accounts back and sell them on another forum.

Hopefully CIP will fix this issue.

[HolmaN]

I don't want to be the one but... I told you so. :)

[Daniel-Sp]

I don't want to be the one but... I told you so. :)

U were right all the time, mate ! Thanks for everything