Botting - The Beginning of the End

[skurwysyn]

Guys, actually what i want to say is that its all over. Cipsoft said couple weeks ago that steam is gonna protect them from botters. Cipsoft didnt say, when, but open your eyes. 2 months ago none botters were banned per day, maybe max 5 to 10. Now look, http://mrthomsen.de/deleted/view
In this site you can actually see that steam is 100% working with them. Today, 1st December 250 accounts were banned ( 10 of mine ). 2 months ago there were 10 bans per day on this site, today i was skiping pages(25 accounts per page) looking for today bans. I stopped at page 10th, but its still coming more. Steam is best valve anti cheat, and its not possible to avoid it. From day to day, number of banned botters per day is still increasing, soon will be 500 per day. In every forum many people complain about bans, claiming that some bot was inefficient. But all I can see is that Cipsoft has brand new system against bots, and it detect them within one week.

[Stusse]

... and yet here am I botting my accounts without getting banned.

DarkstaR even said that steam anti-cheat system wouldn't be a problem if it was implemented even, and for sure I believe him.
Stop cry and make 2 new accounts for every account you've been deleted on.

Edit: Also as many people said this far if you've been missing out: Do you really believe CipSoft would cut off their own feet? God knows how many % of Tibia uses bot. You can see when there's been an update on some worlds not even 50 people are online, after release of bots up to 500. If CipSoft would go through and banish everyone using bot they wouldn't get any income and therefore cut their income.

/Stusse

[Y2Quakepc2]

Bot till death
for sparta

[DarkstaR]

Guys, actually what i want to say is that its all over. Cipsoft said couple weeks ago that steam is gonna protect them from botters. Cipsoft didnt say, when, but open your eyes. 2 months ago none botters were banned per day, maybe max 5 to 10. Now look, http://mrthomsen.de/deleted/view
In this site you can actually see that steam is 100% working with them. Today, 1st December 250 accounts were banned ( 10 of mine ). 2 months ago there were 10 bans per day on this site, today i was skiping pages(25 accounts per page) looking for today bans. I stopped at page 10th, but its still coming more. Steam is best valve anti cheat, and its not possible to avoid it. From day to day, number of banned botters per day is still increasing, soon will be 500 per day. In every forum many people complain about bans, claiming that some bot was inefficient. But all I can see is that Cipsoft has brand new system against bots, and it detect them within one week.

Valve anti-cheat is a client-sided cheat detection system that only works with games that are a part of Steam.


1. Tibia isn't in steam, yet
2. Valve anti-cheat isn't in the Tibia client. It would be easy to see if it was.
3. Valve anti-cheat isn't unbeatable. It's pretty easy to subvert.
4. Cip does this around once a year. They temporarily ramp up bans to scare people, and then slowly ramp down.
5. If Cip banned all botters, they wouldn't have a game left.

[Y2Quakepc2]

Valve anti-cheat is a client-sided cheat detection system that only works with games that are a part of Steam.


1. Tibia isn't in steam, yet
2. Valve anti-cheat isn't in the Tibia client. It would be easy to see if it was.
3. Valve anti-cheat isn't unbeatable. It's pretty easy to subvert.
4. Cip does this around once a year. They temporarily ramp up bans to scare people, and then slowly ramp down after people are already scared. If they banned all botters, they wouldn't have a game left.

dude go straight, no need to 4 points

1. Steam's anti-cheat is really really bull fucking shit.

If cip leaves the tibia botting detection in hands of steam, that would be a benefit for us.

[DarkstaR]

dude go straight, no need to 4 points

1. Steam's anti-cheat is really really bull fucking shit.

If cip leaves the tibia botting detection in hands of steam, that would be a benefit for us.

That's incorrect.

VAC is formidable to many bots/software, it's just easy to subvert when you know what you're doing.

[Y2Quakepc2]

That's incorrect.

VAC is formidable to many bots/software, it's just easy to subvert when you know what you're doing.

I've seen steam games being hacked for years

Botting fight in tibia against anti-bot system has a so fucking long history that i don't really think steam will be able to beat you guys, sorry to say.

[DarkstaR]

I've seen steam games being hacked for years

Botting fight in tibia against anti-bot system has a so fucking long history that i don't really think steam will be able to beat you guys, sorry to say.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

VAC is a client-based detection system that employs a myriad of detection and anti-subversion methods on the end-users machine. Its like an anti-virus, except it is much more powerful because it knows exactly what things it needs to detect will be doing (anti viruses don't).

Tibia's detection is a mix of packet validation and server-based data-mining. It needs to determine if people are botting based on behavioral information. It's like a spam filter, only much less powerful because the amount of entropy in game behavior far surpasses the amount of entropy in spam emails.

Subverting VAC is a never ending game, as they will keep updating it to detect and defeat any subversion. It's cat-and-mouse. It's possible, and its doable for someone like me, but it requires extreme attention to detail and much more work whenever an update is pushed. Subverting Tibia's data mining is as easy as sending proper packets, adding proper delays, randomizing shit, changing up hunting spots frequently, and only botting for reasonable time frames.

[Y2Quakepc2]

You're comparing apples to oranges.

VAC is a client-based detection system that employs a myriad of detection and anti-subversion methods on the end-users machine. Its like an anti-virus, except it is much more powerful because it knows exactly what things it needs to detect will be doing (anti viruses don't).

Tibia's detection is a mix of packet validation and server-based data-mining. It need to determine if people are botting based on behavioral information. It's like a spam filter, only much less powerful because the amount of entropy in game behavior far surpasses the amount of entropy in spam emails.

Subverting VAC is a never ending game, as they will keep updating it to detect and defeat any subversion. It's cat-and-mouse. It's possible, and its doable for someone like me, but it requires extreme attention to detail and much more work whenever an update is pushed. Subverting Tibia's data mining is as easy as sending proper packets, adding proper delays, randomizing shit, changing up hunting spots frequently, and only botting for reasonable time frames.

do you really think i'll enter into a botting detection arguement with you?

well i wont you won dude im done.

http://i.imgur.com/8NAub.gif

[Stusse]

do you really think i'll enter into a botting detection arguement with you?

well i wont you won dude im done.

http://i.imgur.com/8NAub.gif

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/95/95eadb5b9fd996860bad2810f26e2757960192fe3375b23741 8deae4c9c4b8a8.jpg

[nuub]

I would like to see how many active players Tibia would have left if Cipsoft remove all botters.
It's too late for Cipsoft to stop all botters and they know this as well, they are just trying to slow us down atm.

[skurwysyn]

... and yet here am I botting my accounts without getting banned.

DarkstaR even said that steam anti-cheat system wouldn't be a problem if it was implemented even, and for sure I believe him.
Stop cry and make 2 new accounts for every account you've been deleted on.

Edit: Also as many people said this far if you've been missing out: Do you really believe CipSoft would cut off their own feet? God knows how many % of Tibia uses bot. You can see when there's been an update on some worlds not even 50 people are online, after release of bots up to 500. If CipSoft would go through and banish everyone using bot they wouldn't get any income and therefore cut their income.

/Stusse

maybe u are still not detected because u bot on max 2 accounts at once idiot? All what i can say is Cipsoft at first place ban botters who run 3+ accounts at once.

[Trolled1337xx]

maybe u are still not detected because u bot on max 2 accounts at once idiot? All what i can say is Cipsoft at first place ban botters who run 3+ accounts at once.

I'm botting 6+ accs, I've been doing for 1 yr + Only 1 acc banned.

[svennn]

maybe u are still not detected because u bot on max 2 accounts at once idiot? All what i can say is Cipsoft at first place ban botters who run 3+ accounts at once.

Botting 7+ accs for several months. 0 banned.

[Stusse]

maybe u are still not detected because u bot on max 2 accounts at once idiot? All what i can say is Cipsoft at first place ban botters who run 3+ accounts at once.
May I ask what information claims I only bot 2 accounts at once, because it's for sure wrong.

/Stusse

[skurwysyn]

Botting 7+ accs for several months. 0 banned.

do u bot 7 bots at once? 7 clients opened while botting? and do u play on them with same adress ip and same comp?

[svennn]

do u bot 7 bots at once? 7 clients opened while botting? and do u play on them with same adress ip and same comp?

Yes, yes, yes and yes.

[Trolled1337xx]

do u bot 7 bots at once? 7 clients opened while botting? and do u play on them with same adress ip and same comp?

Sounds like ur info is pure bullshit. May I ask where u got that info??!

[skurwysyn]

Yes, yes, yes and yes.

and do u have same fps limit on every acc? when i had 12 accs i had 30 fps limit on every client. And what about ur accounts creation date.

[svennn]

and do u have same fps limit on every acc? when i had 12 accs i had 30 fps limit on every client. And what about ur accounts creation date.

All clients except one are 20fps. My accounts creation dates vary a lot. Two of them are over 2yrs old. 3 of them are over 1 year. The rest are 2~3 months old. Making all the accounts on the same day is stupid. Giving them similar account numbers and passwords is stupid.

[sausting]

since i stopped account string names (1,2,3...) i havent been getting ban wipes. I have still been losing month old accounts here and there so im going to stop using an fps limiter to see if there is any improvement. I have been using it consistently and every deleted account of mine has used the fps limiter that reduces draw rate to 1fps when not focused.

Edit : i was recently training an account 24 hrs and have lost the other accounts that were made at the same time (minutes apart)
all account names were made with a random code generator
(24hr train account) + 2 were online at the time, 3 were not online. (i think i should not have made 6 at one time)

to me, this supports Y2Quakepc2 's theory about detection in account creation.

[Ohman]

It's practically impossible for any game to defend themselves against bots.
Server-side detection is not reliable since a good bot acts no different than a normal player. Server-side bans are probably caused 99% by scripts or careless botting which is out of control for the bot developer
Client-side detection is not reliable because a bot developer can reverse the detection code and corrupt whatever is sent back to the server. This can sort out the shitty bot developers that don't know how to reverse the detection code, for the ones who can it becomes a cat and mouse game as darkstar says (detection code updates to detect a bot -> bot updates to not get detected by client -> ..).