Knightmare (NPC) says randomly "3478 67 90871 97664 3466 0 345"
And we now know 3478 is Bonelord.
so "Bonelord 67 90871 97664 3466 0 345"
This is a beginning i think!
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Knightmare (NPC) says randomly "3478 67 90871 97664 3466 0 345"
And we now know 3478 is Bonelord.
so "Bonelord 67 90871 97664 3466 0 345"
This is a beginning i think!
And 0 is some kind of bad word since the wrinkled bonelord reacts when you say "0" to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazySwe
Wasted many years on old tibian secrets back in the day, im one of the few that tried shoveling and picking every single square in rookgard to get hold off the sword of fury*. I dont remember much about 469 but the things i do remember are that back in the days when me and my friends tried to solve it, the wrinkled beholder didnt say anything about any numbers between 1 and 100,000 except for 469, i personally bruteforced this when the spam filter was easily avoided. Since he now response to 0 i think a new bruteforce would be a good step in the right direction. Also a beholder doesnt have an set number of eyes, beholders come from the game dungeons and dragons and just has a lot of eyes, so the change between beholder and bonelord doesnt have to mean the quest doesnt exist.
although one thing to take in mind is the way cip creates new quest, poi has been an myth since pretty much the start of tibia, wich was considired just as unsolvable as 469 back in the days, then one day cip desided to update tibia and insert a few quest and new areas, including poi. then suddenly even a 12 year old could solve the quest. Once this happend me and my friends got to the conclusion that 469 was at the moment unsolvable and when it will become a solvable quest 12 year olds all over the world will solve it within the first week. But since they clearly updated the wrinkled beholders transcript, unless ur fucking with me on that 0 thing, they might have created an hard puzzle/quest just cuz all the hype it got and how pissed off/disapointed old poi searchers got when they updated that to a childsplay quest.
Back in the days i also studied the map a lot with different hacks, one intresting thing around hellgates is that one tunnel is formed as a key, that might has somethign to do with anything.
we also did ci searches on all books, every transcript etc that could be found on 469 and tried to match these with most common letters an words in the english/german language without any success thou.
take in mind that its not just the books that talks in 469 and even newer beholder monsters has it in their transcript. I really hope you guys manage to get some new information about this since i wasted many years trying to solve it i feel like i have to settle a personal scoore be beating the quest once its revealed, if my old account hasnt got deleted and i dont have to waste to much time leveling. Im having trouble remembering all the shit i studied but ill post it if i start to remember something else we thought were keystones in the language.
Sorry for my bad english, its earlie in the morning and im kinda stressed so dont got time to read everything throu and correct it.
one last thing, dont trust anybody that says they solved it. If someone solved it there would be plenty people willing to pay serious cash for the answer. Also when the solvation leaks it people will notice and start spamming other forums trying to leach of the fame of having solved the quest them selves. and theres no reasson to brag about solving the quest unless u can prove it somehow, wich noone at the moment can, so nobody believes them anyways and they just get known for lying instead of solving the quest
* old rumours about sof also indicates that sunshine got one for helping cip with some shit i dont really remember and after that they edited the map, theres a sign next to the sword that says "only the humble may touch the sword of fury", yet this sounds like a bunch of bullshit to me.
Hmm, the most critical step at this time must be to find out how the numbers is grouped
Artmann gets a gold star :) thank you for uncovering this important information.
If anyone is still interested in this, I've a small theory to contribute...
In response to
It would be that 0 is, in fact, a delimiter, and it actually acts as any punctuation, example:Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkstaR
Tibia Beholders will rule all of Tibia: using the beholder language
Most likely a bad combination of words, potentially even more so, but it would make sense in most cases that 0 represents some form of punctuation, it could be anything from full stop to colon, or even in some cases inverted comma.
Does that mean that each number in the text is a letter/syllable/word or amount of blinks?Quote:
Although they can 'speak' like humans using some membranes, their native 'tongue' consists of a blinking code with each eye, where a blinking could mean some syllable, letter or word. It is by far the most complex speech we have ever encountered and it is almost impossible to comprehend. As far as we can tell it is not only a language but also some kind of mathematics. This combination makes it tedious even to try to understand that language.
http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Behold_t...elords!_(Book)
Also:
Book from first book case (http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/5611457278_(Book))
NOTE: EACH WORD IS SEPERATED WITH A SPACE
If you take a look at the 67 (based on Darkstars wordlist) then you can see that there are certain numbers that matches both cases that are there before the 67 and after the 67.Quote:
561145727857261185764364 67 2435 345 2756 0 1928895219735364 67 249684756 0 19968477 0 9 0
889521972781 67 0 512164856114519199118 00 364688952199118 00 65128
So either that is a full word all togetherQuote:
561145727857261185764364 67 2435 345 2756 0 1928895219735364 67 249684756 0 19968477 0 9 0
889521972781 67 0 512164856114519199118 00 364688952199118 00 65128
Or it is just a repeated sentence, common set of words they use.Quote:
3646724
Quote:
364 67 24
I also came to the conclusion that 889 must be it's own word because it pops up several times throughout this text and others.
Then we find one more pattern in the text (199118) or if its two words 199 and 118 seperately because we can find 199 three times and 118 two times. Though in one of the cases, 199 isn't followed by 118. In other documents, we can find 118 many times followed by double zeros etc so my conclusion is that 118 and 119 are two seperate words.Quote:
561145727857261185764 364 67 24 35 345 2756 0 192 889 5219735 364 67 24 9684756 0 19968477 0 9 0
889 521972781 67 0 512164856114519199118 00 3646 889 52199118 00 65128
Quote:
561145727857261185764 364 67 24 35 345 2756 0 192 889 5219735 364 67 24 9684756 0 19968477 0 9 0
889 521972781 67 0 512164856114519199118 00 3646 889 52199118 00 65128
edit:
Just found that 889 is followed by 5219 in many occasions in this book I am using but checking the other books, 899 sometimes appears without the 5219 so both of them has to be words.
My result is that this book
Should have this structure (based on similarities throughout the text and other texts but also the fact that 0s and double 0s are delimiters.)Quote:
56114572785726118576436467243534527560192889521973 53646724968475601996847709088952197278167051216485 6114519199118003646889521991180065128
I might be totally wrong though :rolleyes:Quote:
56 1145 727 857 26 118 5764 364 67 24 35 345 2756 0 192 889 5219 735 364 67 24 968 4756 0 19 968 477 0 9 0
889 5219 727 81 67 0 51216 4856 1145 19 199 118 00 3646 889 5219 9 118 00 65 12 8
I have no idea what the numbers mean though :c
dont give up community, keep trowing ideas, and try to solve this!
i myself find this amazing but lack the knowledge to help anyone out but i have come to 2 conclusions:
1:The answer to this riddle is simpler than what were doing, hence the answer is right in front of us, were making it more complex.
OR
2: There is no answer to this and its just a mess of numbers cram up together(probably with a program) to make it appear like a "quest", or it was an intended quest that was never finished. (maybe the game updated too fast to connect things to the quest or maybe even cipsoft themself could not associate the numbers they had come up with and they could not find a way to connect the numbers in a way in which a pattern could be determine even with a key or something else).
in a side note, i really want this quest to be real, but them i think about it....."How did the dipshits at cipsoft come up with such an elaborated quest involving decryption numbers, using algorithms to associate numbers to words, connecting it to an ancient language with reference to mathematics and then connecting it to the world of tibia?" it all seems waaaaay too elaborated to be solve by the average joe playing the game, and then again maybe it wasn't intended for the average joe and thats why no one has solve this quest. Who knows, maybe an enlighten among us will rise and solve the riddle of the bonelords. But it all seems too weird.....
Knightmare answered a question about quests / secrets that has not been discovered yet in an interview with Tibia Hispano.
http://www.tibiahispano.com/entrevistas/Knightmare/enQuote:
Knightmare: This question is is somewhat missing the crucial point of this issue. Let me put it that way: If you are not interested in a 'treasure hunt' (in some way) for the hunts sake, you can just as well let it be. The problems start with the question: what is a quest for you? What if there is a secret that King Tibianus wears pink underwear and nobody knows about it yet? You could probably figure it out by talking to dozens of NPCs and follow their leads and in the end the only reward would be that you know about it. Figuring out what versions of Tibian history might be the truth, what the motivations were of certain shakers and movers in Tibian history might be a riddle - a quest - something you could put work into to figure it out. There would be no substantial reward whatsoever though. Would that still be a quest in the context of the question then?
Consider the age of quests, too. For example, there could be an incredibly old quest, that nowadays would hardly be considered a quest anymore. The reward might be something that is common loot in our days. Would that still suit the taste of the treasure hunter? Just imagine that the reward might only be gold. Perhaps a veritable fortune in the past, but not even a weeks loot today. You would probably even fail to claim the fame to have solved the quest. As soon as you announce it, a dozen others would claim to have known it all along and even accuse you to have spoiled the secret.
What I want to explain is: If you have fun in exploring, experimenting, reading and talking - then have fun, regardless of the outcome. Then the question really is irrelevant for you. If you are interested in the reward mainly, and an answer to this question is substantial for you in order to follow the leads, then rather do your hunting routine and simply get it when it's common knowledge and you are interested in it. There is simply no guarantee in Tibia that your efforts will always pay off. Some might not be rewarded at all, you might even reach a dead end at one point or chase something that does not exist. If you enjoy the hunt, that does not matter.
By the way, I honestly doubt that most of the people who want more mystery quests in Tibia today have actually solved the dream challenge or the desert quest completely on their own. It's even unlikely that they found the way to the paradox tower at all without hints from some true explorers. So I would advise everyone not interested in exploring to wait until something becomes common knowledge rather then to waste time in a wild goose chase, and I wish all others lots of fun on their adventures and exploration tours.
Cipsoft have said a long time ago that there were many quests in tibia. they also said that there were many quests that have not been found yet. This could mean anything from a quest that gives you a backpack to a quest that gives you one of the rarest items back in the day. So maybe they purposely put this out there because they worked hard on this one?
http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Excalibug
A Wrinkled Bonelord: Only inferior species need weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by desche188
I am still glad this topic has had so much interest. Its a dead end but still makes me think of the good ol' days
Excalibug:
So if this Bonelord language is as old as the first edition of Excalibug, the reward might be the magic longsword :rolleyes:.Quote:
They would both be a Magic Longsword if they existed today. The swords were removed from the game, and when the Magic Longsword was introduced, the stats were lowered twice, and after the second time they stuck. CipSoft presumably added excalibug as roleplaying material, and this is the story.
Its not a dead end. I know a part of the answer not the full one though. Pm me for more info :)
no, exalibug wasnt even made by cip, there was a mapper who made it and hit it so he could use it on his own char, since gms cant summon items etc. When it got discovered the mapper was revoked of his mapping status and the sword was removed, was a couple old explorers who had found the sword, a friend of mine had one. WAAAAAAAAY back in the days. but what i heard from him they only removed the sword, then gave away magic long swords to the once crying about not being allowed to cheat, something like that. like i said in my earlier post ive forgotten much about the game.
Like i said before on this thread i found lots and lots of repeated patterns on the books written on beholder language but it led to nowhere since they were too much numbers for my own lol
what we need is brainstorm around this code and words
Anyone know morse code? Long shot but maybe something far fetched to look at
http://morsecode.scphillips.com/jtranslator.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly
Could you post the coincidence index?Quote:
Originally Posted by thorekz
I erased it but is not hard to make, just paste all the books on word and copy extracts and then use search on the document
Come one guys, don't give up. Perhaps this is the last chance at breaking it, since Tibia is losing lots of interested players. I registered just to try chime in some clues. I've spent some time trying to break it, but I'm lacking the persistance required.
First, we must determine how the given clues portray the language. We know that it's a blinking code, namely a five eye blinking code. This should give us a number of variations of blinks, given that there's five eyes. As far as I can ascertain, it gives us 31 possible variations. Ok, so it's a language with a vocabulary of 31 letters, words or syllables as written in the book "Beware of the Bonelords!" in isle of kings.
http://tibia.wikia.com/wiki/Beware_o...ds!_%28Book%29
Now, we know for certain that 1 means Tibia as told by the "wrinked beholder". That's the only thing in the vocabulary we have been given. Where's the rest of the words, letters or syllables? This is a mess. A clue about it has been given by the evil mastermind: "You won't stop my masterplan to flood the world market with fake Bonelord language dictionaries!" My fear is that you need to do alot of work to determine the words in the vocabulary.
Furthermore, there more problems to regard. the "Wrinkled bonelord", tells us that 0 is an obscure number, but in the books there's alot of 0's. Something's fishy.
Sayings by Beholder npcs:
A Wrinkled Bonelord: 1, 486486, 469,
Elder bonelord: 659978 54764, 653768764
But the words said by a human, are quite different.
Knightmare: 3478 67 90871 97664 3466 0 345
The big challenge in my mind is to figure out the vocabulary's full content. To do this we need large amount words, so that we can predict what number in the beholder language means what word, syllable or letter. How do we find those numbers? We look to the Hellgate library for them, but there's a big problem. The books in the library contains a mass of indistinguishable numbers, it's impossible to determine if a number is 6, 67, 126 or 3478. Additionally, how can 3478 be in a vocabulary of only 31? There's no way you can achieve that with only five eyes. That's where, as I believe, we turn to
the advantage of modular arithmetic. With modular aritmetic, one can obscure the number 6 to 3478. You simply add the number 31 until you get 3478.
Now there's one more thing to take into consideration. The texts in the library has for certain been cyphered with a matrix. The clues given by Tibia gives us that you must be a mathemagic to read the texts, you need to fluently be able to calculate alot of numbers fast. The name of the language, 469, is also linked to the matrix as in this picture (not mine):
http://www.tibiapic.com/show.php?v=apW0sLTAT6TT
Since they're using a matrix as cipher, as far as I know, it should be a hill cipher, using modulo 31.(If that's the number of the vocabulary) But those ciphers only use letters, not numbers, in the cipher text. Letters can easily be seperated, numbers cannot.
So the operations, to extrapolate the words from the library, required are: (1) Determine each correct number (2) Insert them into the matrix and calculate them (3) Find the base modulo for the numbers ( 15232 for instance gives us 11).
(1) Is really hard. How do you ascertain what number is right in the mass of numbers? You need to find the spaces between the numbers so that you can categorize them. This is the real function of the "code" of the hellgate library in my opinion. What else can there be? But it's ludicrously hard to find all the spaces. And this is the reason why the language is almost uncipherable manually. It's like a giant puzzle where you need to compare the strings forever and forever to find where each book differ from the other thus find the spaces.
I've found that there's originally one large line of text. Parts of this text has been copied then changed and put into books and so forth.
There's also some books that simply contain it's own numbers twice. It's pretty absurd the assumptions you have to make to find out where the each numbers fit in the original line. The problem is that you need to find all the spaces, to get the amount of vocabulary number that are required to ascertain their meaning.
One wrong space, and it'll screw up the rest of the line. That's what makes it ridiculous. Perhaps the only way to crack the library code is to make a program that compares all the lines and find the spaces etc. But I'm not adept in programming...
I hope this spurs some ideas, I will post the "correct" orders of the books later when I'm done with the books, and you'll see how whacky it is. Still, the challenge is to find the spaces.
Glad to see the interest and time you took to type this. But it is important to remember bone lords used to be beholders with a different amount of eyes. So here lies a major flaw if I'm not mistakenQuote:
Originally Posted by Cauthon
what you need to do is send a email to kicksoft and tell them "answer yes or no, Does the beholder language exist, can it be solve?" and that should pretty much clear it up
i think old players only know about it. and when i say old its 2000 or less
I'm just happy to help. People seem to be stomping around in a corner which they will never leave when it comes to the beholder language.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly
There's no magic spell, no magic mathematical formula that will solve this.
I do remember the ol' beholder with six eyes. But it don't see it as a discrepancy to my line of thinking. You have to look into the matter closer. If six eyes were of importance, why did they change the beholder's eyes to five? You have to remember that the blinking language was designed with the beholder as it was released. It was probably like this: the first beholder skin had five tentacle-eyes and one body eye. It may be so that the body eye was orginally not thought to be occupied in blinking code.
When they later changed the beholder skin from six eyes to five, they had changed their mind. Now the body eye was incorporated into the blinking code, and thus the beholder still had five eyes to blink its language with. Later they introduced the braindeath, which had its body eye nullified. In result, it cannot blink with the other beholders, cementing the fact that the body eye is being used in the blinking code.
The eye code could be inspired by ASCII
http://www.cs.ndsu.nodak.edu/~adento...nary-chart.gif
And the ASCII language could be combined with cryptography, thus a matrix.
http://www.math.washington.edu/~king...yptography.htm
But the hard part is of course the hellgate library code. I believe they were inspired by something big that was happening in the world when they were implementing the beholders and hellgate. Since the year was about 2000, what inspired them in that time?
We know that mathemagic was big in 2000, it's mentioned alot. But there was another big thing too.
In 2000, the mapping of the genome was at its peak. They were mapping the blueprint of life, DNA. I think they were inspired by how they were mapping it. We know that the hellgate library is full of incomplete sequences, not unlike this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg7Y5EeZsjk
http://www.cbcb.umd.edu/research/ass....shtml#shotgun
This method of DNA mapping uses pure computer power, but still it had to rely on the slow public project. I think it's some variant of the shotgun sequence mapping. It's really hard to do manually.
Now I have tried it manually, but it's too daunting a task to determine where every number's position should be, but most books are somehow included in one master string that is the "original dna" string. Some books though, seem not to even have small sequences in them, like 9:1 , 35:1 and 22:3.
Here's why:
http://i.imgur.com/Qv0d7eg.jpg
And finally, here's the real face of all the books in the hellgate library. The dark lines are where I cannot 100% be sure if the sequence continues, but within these lines the order should be correct. As you see there's hundreds and hundreds of spaces between the numbers.
http://i.imgur.com/H0bbiX5.jpg
Since it's so hard to do 100% correct manually, I'm thinking you're supposed to do some kind of program that is like a shotgun mapping sequencing program, but for numbers instead of nucleobases.
bump. anyone?
Bump keep going everyone :P
I still look sometimes into this but i cant get anything new
Bump!!!!!!!!!!
I got a friend of mine who has played since 1997 and he said that 0 mean space, not space as in the universe more like void
@DarkstaR
Anything on this?
I've only read up to about page 5 but I notice you were using zero's as line breaks, if that's correct then why is there 0 and 00?
Hello Darkstar, My name is Charles, I'm back to tibia after another long break 15 months, and I saw this new beholder neverend topic, I have so many informations coz I play since 99 but is boring to read all stuffs so if you want some information just add me on skype [charles.sharrel]Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkstaR
some: nightmare isnt mapper anymore.
he did this before the beholder name changed and before number of eyes changed too.
this is possible to understand the language, nightmare told once upon a time that some of his quests never get solved including hellgate library so it is yes a quest.
a lot more, just contact me I see that u really wanna know.
Why don't you share with everyone? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by sharrel
As some of the realots files (cipsoft 7.7 server) was released, perhaps it's possible to find out more about it? Otlands forum thread where files were posted
The download threadhttp://www.mediafire.com/?f8angygqra...qaurcosn9po7kc
Feel free so scan as i didnt upload them but i scanned it on virusscanjotti and it seems to be safe.
Yea I also believe this, this or one more thing ill explain further down. Also what I've noticed reading up on 469(I use to try decipher it back in the days when I played) that people have forgotten some numbers we have facts on, for example 1 and 2. everyone knows that 1 is Tibia, because wb says so, but also in tibian lore tibia was 1 and sula was 2, as in the goddess Tibiasula. There's nothing on why this is, but when you read the lore you get some insight. Tibiasula was the first successful creation while trying to create "the world". blah blah blah. Tibiasula gets split in two, Tibia and Sula. Tibia which is earth and sula which is water. So air and fire should probably be 3 and 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by maxiee
I also believe its possible that 0 describes the action of Zathroth killing Tibiasula, since that would be obscene, at least for the tibians. But through the lore, bonelords dont care about tibian gods so I dont see why that would matter. But like knightmare says, the tibian lore may contradict it self though to many writers and you shouldn't knock something untill you got facts about it. But knightmare consider npc transcription facts and ew says "Our books are written in 469, of course you can't understand them." when you ask about the books. It wouldnt be the first time the npc's lie about stuff though.
And these theories doesnt support any theories for a matematical deciphering. Which contradicts some books.
bump, cool thread
Back in the early days of realots I was a gm with god powers (didn't realize I had god powers until later I figured all gm's could do the commands I could). One of the commands I had was the ability to move up/down a floor regardless of the terrain so naturally in my off time of banning cheaters I did alot of exploring. Realots was at the time 100% the map files of 7.7 so at the request of some friends I have explored 99.5% of the "secret" areas in the game. Including but not limited to:Quote:
Originally Posted by ppgab
The treasure room in kazordoon;
treasure room in hellsgate;
the dragon area in spike sword;
all over the edron dungeon area including that little black tile/red brick area thats unreachable by stones;
Just want to point out that POI the entire area was developed by filled with ds, dl's, and slimes. None of the new creatures that came out that update were there yet however poi dl's was completely done along with the 4 vocation paths and most of the groundwork.
If you have any questions about map areas and whats there feel free to ask.
For the doubters, i'm sorry you feel that way I really wish I had tibicammed it, but at the time I didn't realize the importance of it.
//Xek
Join DateQuote:
Originally Posted by xekoroth
Jul 2011
Posts
1
'long time lurker, first time poster'
There is no such thing as a bonelord. It's a fucking beholder.