New update mess with scripts?

[XtrmJosh]

The code I obfuscate is the code that is very specific to how our system operates. Most of it can be of little use to it, and even more of it people wouldn't be able to understand. The people who could understand it would be able to make it anyway.
The code I release to the public are things that I feel the community could use, modify, and adapt to their own code. As you have already said the proverb, I don't have to repeat it.

Tutorials are great, but when learning you need to see real applications, and even better, a template to work off of.
When you teach something to a person, you show them example problems and give them the answers to them, but you don't hand them all the answers, they will never learn.

All that being said, I'm not a saint, this is a business. I give back to the community because I feel like I should, but I'm not obligated to. This is why there is a free and paid version of XenoMap.
Both benefit the community. Some people don't want to learn shit, they'd rather pay money for scripts, and that's just fine. Not everyone has time or the interest in scripting. I/We cater to both.


edit: Btw, no offense, but half your post said that obfuscated code is bad and the code would be useful, the other half you said you don't like to release bits of code when they could write it themselves. Wat?

Finally, someone I can debate with who has an actual argument. Too bad I'm a bit drained from the last few hours...

Well, the truth is, you know me, you know I'm no expert. I'm no expert at Lua, and it would take me a while to make anything of any real value to ship to people. For those reasons, I can't really see enough benefit in me writing anything more substantial than what I have already submitted to these forums. I mean, I've thought in the past about trying to make a system similar to yours, but I'd have gone the whole hog and made it so that in the setup you'd declare every part of (from the basic stuff like the mana potion types to buy, to the slightly less basic stuff like a list of items to deposit). The problem again comes down to my abilities with Lua. This would effectively provide the same thing that I'm looking to provide with the video tutorial situation, but a bit simpler as a user could simply declare a list of variables and the code behind it would handle the rest. The other issues I was faced with when I first attempted it were things like levers, doors, floor checking, amongst a few others. It didn't really seem feasible to write the code to be adaptable enough to validate the concept.

Beyond the issues I faced, I thought about it some more and it struck me that actually the other problem which would need to be considered is that the end goal of a user being able to simple download, implement, and run it. The user would still need to know a substantial amount of Lua, and they would not explicitly have benefited from using the system, instead they would have done what they do already, that is downloading a script, setting some variables, and running it. My goal is to teach people, and I can't do that if I'm just going to provide a download with which you'd just fill in the blanks, and run it as a script.

For those reasons I chose the route of making the video(s). The videos provide users with far more than I could hope to teach people how to do it for themselves. The actual intention initially was also to reduce the amount of people who came to the forums (and to my skype) asking for help with scripts, by teaching them how to debug and tinker.

Business is acceptable, I can't argue with that, hence why my previous post was meant with minimal amounts of offence to yourself. The main point of the comment is that I'm being instructed to "do something for the community" by someone who is doing something strictly for themselves (and of course for your benefit, and with the free scripts there is some benefit to the end users). In BugWT we were constantly fighting to get code encryption to hide some of our more advanced scripts like the rune shooters and spell casters. That's just the way the world works.

[Joshwa534]

I actually meant to say Syntax, as I don't generally refer to either of them by their forum names due to the people I speak to on Skype. The reason I know they are working with you is because I am observant and aware. When I see something happening which is of interest to me, I will do my best to find out exactly what it is, especially when that is a reputable, well known, highly respected member of the forum linking your scripts.

If your code is constantly being improved, why are you still selling it in its old state? It gives a bad impression, and is generally a bad idea considering the way in which the code itself is working. I have not seen any improvements myself, and so far I've looked at a well sized array of both paid and free scripts made by your team. Admittedly I've only paid for 2, but I do have friends who buy scripts too, and when they don't work they come to me asking why, so I end up debugging them via TeamViewer and finding the issue. All of them that I've seen have been using this same code, with very few differences.

I've been aware of the majority of bugs on XB (having access to the bug tracking system helps), and I was aware of a bug in which some labels were skipped from time to time. The common workaround to the issue was to use Walker.Stop() and Walker.Start(), and in my experience that worked just fine. It still works just fine, and I'm encountering no issues with it. I see no reason why you would use a sleep, especially one of 2 seconds. Being as you're so aware of the current issues, surely you would also be aware of when they are fixed, and be one of the first to update your scripts to reflect the current state of the bot? Or do you not care about maintenance? Is your only interest drawing in customers by a large script base? The new shit as you refer to it is not suitable for any of my characters and I have no desire to bot any character at Thais north trolls. If you want a tester, as I've said to many other scripting teams in the past, I'd be more than willing to become that tester, but I would expect not only that the script works in a productive way, but also that the code itself looks respectable. I guess for the sheer fact that Syntax is writing all the Lua now, that won't really be necessary, since he does have an understanding of how to write as well as debug code before trying to shift it.

I really wish you'd done your research here, because the syndrome does in fact go by multiple names, both "Down's Syndrome" and "Down Syndrome". The fact that you'd even try to pull me up on that is ludicrous. On top of that, you're mocking my insults after the shit you and your team has been throwing around? My avatar is in fact a picture of myself which was modified using an app on my old iPhone. Would've thought that it would be quite obvious to you, then again you shouldn't ever show a fool a brick and tell him it's a meal.

The first script I bought from you had a setup which any reasonable minded person would expect to work out of the box. I flicked through the variables, looking to run it and get off to bed quickly, and noticed the script walking back and forth in town, so had to stop the script and leave it. The fact that you'd sell a script with a setup which will cause that behaviour is just insane. As mentioned several times, it demonstrates a clear lack of testing and the simple desire to get scripts sold without thinking about the consequences. I attempted to charge back the $3 out of principle. The reason I didn't proceed with the chargeback? Out of respect for DarkstaR. The only reason I didn't proceed with that is because you threatened to leave the forums, and your script base would have been depleted as a result. The fact is, you retards do have something to offer, regardless of how shit it is in current state. The reason I'm willing to proceed now? Well, I'm sick of seeing the tripe that gets flogged on this forum, and I'm sick and tired of friends coming to me when your scripts don't work. You're forgetting, I lead the guild on Olympa, and the majority of the members speak to me on Skype. On top of that, probably 30% or more of the community who don't play Olympa also speak to me for various other reasons, so whenever someone buys one of your scripts there is a good chance that they will talk to me as a first point of call, since I'm online all day at work and for a good few hours in the evening. I get harassed on a daily basis about scripts from all corners of this forum, and yours are by far the most common that I get asked about.

Skipping Labels:
Walker.Stop() & Walker.Start() did absolutely nothing to help the labels from being skipped so we had to try every option possible. I'm not sure that you have any idea what you're talking about concerning the labels skipping since you haven't even experienced it yourself.

Current Issues, updating & maintenance:
I reported this to Spectrus and Syntax over Skype calls, neither of them had experienced what we were describing thus they didn't know if it was an issue on our end or an issue in Xenobot. Once we created a completely new script, where Syntax could see every bit of what was going on and it started skipping labels then yes, it flew up some flags and grabbed his attention. Yes, we knew Nick was updating Xenobot and yes, we had the patch prior to release so we could make sure it was working as it should have been. We knew there wouldn't be any reason to update scripts with any lua code and/or xbst changes because of how labels were going to be handled once the patch was released, so what exactly are you getting at? Who was the largest scripting service in December 2012 and still the fastest at updating to the new functions when Xenobot was updated the day before Christmas Eve? Have you even asked yourself why Walker.Start() and Walker.Start() aren't even needed a vast majority of labels now? If you knew what was going on over here in the real world then you would know that everything you're saying is a pointless waste of time. You complaining about old code is a waste of time, bitching that we aren't updating the old scripts when we are is just preposterous.

Everything else:
We will never ask you to be one of our testers, we aren't even remotely interested in your offer. I don't care that you don't have any characters suitable to bot in North Thais Trolls as I've mentioned plenty of times before, we're asking for feedback concerning the functionality of the new code. The fact that you lead a guild on Olympa has little to do with your argument, I lead the largest American guild on Magera - doesn't mean shit. As for your friends or guild members asking for help, I'm online 18+ hours daily, the people that need help have access to my Skype, Ventrilo, Twitch & in-game names. I don't understand how you would possibly think the following statement: "so whenever someone buys one of your scripts there is a good chance that they will talk to me as a first point of call". If I was buying scripts from 'x' scripter then I surely wouldn't expect to talk to Ben about 'x' scripter's scripts since he is not the person that created the scripts.

More bullshit I have to reply to:
As far as you being "harassed" daily from all corners of this forum.. That simply sounds like you've got some issues of your own. I don't see people creating threads "OH XTRMJOSH PLZ HELP ME!". When you cater to as many people as we do, have as many scripts available as we do and are generally enjoyed by the community as we are then yes, you will have a large amount of people using your scripts - just like we do. I wouldn't think to buy a product from someone that is purely an asshole to every living soul he meets online. But hey, go ahead and continue to feel that the community is harassing you while the truth remains that you're the one putting yourself in other people's business like its your duty because you're a guy from England that thinks he's the god of lua code and knows everything in the universe.

Enjoy you're evening and hey, if you want to continue talking shit, bitching about old code or continue to try feeling important then come to my Twitch channel and we'll see if we can solve your issue(s). Alternatively, you continue to attempt to annoy me with your walls of text that nobody reads and eventually the public will know who is in the right and who is in the wrong as I'm stepping away from this fight like a man and you're still in the corning crying about your e-peen.

&^%@#*$ you,
Joshwa534

[RoxZin xD]

I just wanted to say thank you guys, and I'm like "oh man don't end this I just made the third popcorn bowl!"

[inadequate]

There really is no reason to be fighting, the problem is resolved, and I am grateful for the input from both sides.

[Wovimus]

I just wanted to say thank you guys, and I'm like "oh man don't end this I just made the third popcorn bowl!"

+1 to popcorns! XD

[XtrmJosh]

Skipping Labels:
Walker.Stop() & Walker.Start() did absolutely nothing to help the labels from being skipped so we had to try every option possible. I'm not sure that you have any idea what you're talking about concerning the labels skipping since you haven't even experienced it yourself.

Current Issues, updating & maintenance:
I reported this to Spectrus and Syntax over Skype calls, neither of them had experienced what we were describing thus they didn't know if it was an issue on our end or an issue in Xenobot. Once we created a completely new script, where Syntax could see every bit of what was going on and it started skipping labels then yes, it flew up some flags and grabbed his attention. Yes, we knew Nick was updating Xenobot and yes, we had the patch prior to release so we could make sure it was working as it should have been. We knew there wouldn't be any reason to update scripts with any lua code and/or xbst changes because of how labels were going to be handled once the patch was released, so what exactly are you getting at? Who was the largest scripting service in December 2012 and still the fastest at updating to the new functions when Xenobot was updated the day before Christmas Eve? Have you even asked yourself why Walker.Start() and Walker.Start() aren't even needed a vast majority of labels now? If you knew what was going on over here in the real world then you would know that everything you're saying is a pointless waste of time. You complaining about old code is a waste of time, bitching that we aren't updating the old scripts when we are is just preposterous.

Everything else:
We will never ask you to be one of our testers, we aren't even remotely interested in your offer. I don't care that you don't have any characters suitable to bot in North Thais Trolls as I've mentioned plenty of times before, we're asking for feedback concerning the functionality of the new code. The fact that you lead a guild on Olympa has little to do with your argument, I lead the largest American guild on Magera - doesn't mean shit. As for your friends or guild members asking for help, I'm online 18+ hours daily, the people that need help have access to my Skype, Ventrilo, Twitch & in-game names. I don't understand how you would possibly think the following statement: "so whenever someone buys one of your scripts there is a good chance that they will talk to me as a first point of call". If I was buying scripts from 'x' scripter then I surely wouldn't expect to talk to Ben about 'x' scripter's scripts since he is not the person that created the scripts.

More bullshit I have to reply to:
As far as you being "harassed" daily from all corners of this forum.. That simply sounds like you've got some issues of your own. I don't see people creating threads "OH XTRMJOSH PLZ HELP ME!". When you cater to as many people as we do, have as many scripts available as we do and are generally enjoyed by the community as we are then yes, you will have a large amount of people using your scripts - just like we do. I wouldn't think to buy a product from someone that is purely an asshole to every living soul he meets online. But hey, go ahead and continue to feel that the community is harassing you while the truth remains that you're the one putting yourself in other people's business like its your duty because you're a guy from England that thinks he's the god of lua code and knows everything in the universe.

Enjoy you're evening and hey, if you want to continue talking shit, bitching about old code or continue to try feeling important then come to my Twitch channel and we'll see if we can solve your issue(s). Alternatively, you continue to attempt to annoy me with your walls of text that nobody reads and eventually the public will know who is in the right and who is in the wrong as I'm stepping away from this fight like a man and you're still in the corning crying about your e-peen.

&^%@#*$ you,
Joshwa534

I'm no longer interested in this conversation, you guys can post whatever you want in regards to this simpleton but I won't respond to him again, regardless of what's being said or any issues he may experience in the future. @XtrmJosh Anything further may be taken up with whoever in this team still gives a fuck about what you're ranting on about but I personally will not explain myself to you again. You're beating a dead horse, move on or shut the fuck up.

I thought you'd already gone?

I do seem to recall an issue where stopping and restarting the walker was not possible, but that was a considerable time ago (at least 6 months), surely in that time you would have reviewed your scripts and done something about their shoddy state?

Bitching about you not updating old scripts when you are? Sorry, when did you last update any of the scripts? Correct me if I'm wrong here, and I have strong suspicions that you won't, but you still haven't updated the Liberty Bay Wyrms script since I bought it, and that was using the same chunk of bullshit Lua the rest of your scripts run off. So, no, you're not updating your scripts, don't try bullshit here, it's not gonna win you any brownie points.

Surely all that your paragraph about "Everything Else" demonstrates is that you're such a retard that your customers look elsewhere for help! The reason they come to me is because I am a friendly person with a wide array of skills and a good general understanding of the bot itself. If this paragraph even displayed a remote element of truth, the person who made this thread would have come to you. If he did, and you offered support, he would have obtained that support, surely, and not bothered to make the thread? Owait, you're wrong again.

People don't create threads aimed at me because I tell them to contact me on Skype. As I work as a professional software tester, I am on computers pretty much every waking hour except for the weekends when I'm out. I put myself in a situation where people come to me for support because I enjoy helping people. It may surprise you to find that actually there are people out there who get more of a buzz out of helping their fellow man than out of getting a pay cheque. If I were such an ass hole to everyone, how do you think I became the leader of Mirage? How do you think I kept the members safe from luring teams? How do you think I made the friends that I have, and how do you think that I have the contacts that I have? Bribery? Magic? Hit me. You must have some explanation... You seem to know everything else...?

My evening has been just fine so far, thanks, I'm enjoying it as I do. I'd rather not visit your twitch channel. It's far more aimed at gamers than hobbyists, and I consider myself to be a hobbyist more than anything else. I don't have the effort to invest in gaming as an interest, I'd much rather sit here and write some code, trial some programs, and do what I enjoy. The only thing the public need to know is exactly what I've been protesting about all along, and exactly what you're even accepting by the mere suggestion that your code is outdated. You clearly have a complete lack of regard for your existing script base, and even now you still continue to sell scripts which are outdated and inefficient.

[shinchan]

Surely all that your paragraph about "Everything Else" demonstrates is that you're such a retard that your customers look elsewhere for help! The reason they come to me is because I am a friendly person with a wide array of skills and a good general understanding of the bot itself. If this paragraph even displayed a remote element of truth, the person who made this thread would have come to you. If he did, and you offered support, he would have obtained that support, surely, and not bothered to make the thread? Owait, you're wrong again.

You are far from being a friendly person.

[XtrmJosh]

I just wanted to say thank you guys, and I'm like "oh man don't end this I just made the third popcorn bowl!"

[28/06/2013 19:17:43] Josh Griffith: you enjoying the argument today?
[28/06/2013 19:17:55] Nick Cano: which
[28/06/2013 19:19:26] Josh Griffith: me & JX
[28/06/2013 19:19:27] Josh Griffith: lol
[28/06/2013 19:19:35] Nick Cano: where
[28/06/2013 19:19:38] Nick Cano: lol
[28/06/2013 19:20:54] Josh Griffith: http://forums.xenobot.net/showthread.php?15099-New-update-mess-with-scripts
[28/06/2013 19:20:59] Josh Griffith: It's turning into me against everyone tbh lol
[28/06/2013 19:21:44] Nick Cano: ill check it out
[28/06/2013 19:21:47] Nick Cano: but first
[28/06/2013 19:22:03] Nick Cano: i am going to go push the boundaries of our toilets
[28/06/2013 19:22:08] Nick Cano: possible voiud the warranties
[28/06/2013 19:22:10] Nick Cano: etc

Think there's a few people watching for the luls. Glad you're enjoying it

There really is no reason to be fighting, the problem is resolved, and I am grateful for the input from both sides.

The problem isn't solved, and it won't be solved until they do something about the scripts they are distributing. If you don't want to get involved just lay low and enjoy the ride, this is more of a debate than a fight anyway, although it does seem that the enemy can't hold an argument without resorting to personal attacks and insults.

+1 to popcorns! XD

_/ Only got rice cakes here, but they do the job

[XtrmJosh]

You are far from being a friendly person.

Oh and you obviously know me so well...

[Swaghetti]

So.. why is it a big deal if he have outdated code in his current scripts? All the scripts I've tried work as intended and there's no f***ing reason to update if they're revamping ALL of their scripts.

Pure logic.