Is XenoBot a good bot for scripters?

[Stusse]

This is a bit of a contradictory view. You basically beg for better obfuscation, but you make a back-handed implication that you're willing to move to another bot with NO OBFUSCATION. This leads me to believe that it's not a matter of preserving your own intellectual property, but, instead, a severe case of "they have it, I want it". Now, there's nothing wrong with that attitude, but I wish you'd at least admit that it is your ultimate reason for making this post. (Hint: If its not, then you really have trouble with expressing what you feel.)

I admit, having encryption for JX was a problem, as they were a third-party service like everyone else. Why should they have a privilege? One of the main reason to incorporate Cavitt and Joshwa into OX Scripts was to set a dividing line that says "These scripts have DarkstaR's stamp of approval". The purpose of this partitioning was to make it clear why they were the only group to get encryption: because they are the only group that I can give my approval to. This doesn't mean that I have some inherent bias against you, but more that I have a bias towards trusting Cavitt. That may seem unfair, but he's the only person on this forum who has jumped out of a fucking airplane with me. Yadig?

In comparison, SS is a bunch of people that I have only mild acquaintances with. I know that you, @Nakuu, and your team are dedicated to XenoBot, and I do have respect for that. You maintain the suggestions thread, you're active in the community, and you're pretty chill when you're not talking to Cavitt or Joshwa. But, at the end of the day, there have been millions of people just like me that have given power to millions of people that appeared to have the same genuine intentions as you, and have still been fucked over. There's nothing I have from you guys that says "Nick, you can trust us 100% not to put malicious shit inside of scripts". If I was making this decision at the discretion of my own risk, I'd probably say "sure, I'll give it a shot". But that's not the case. As soon as I decide to let you use xblua, I'm deciding, for everybody on my forum, that you can be trusted. Sure, it's their choice if they want to make a purchase from you, but many XenoBot users don't pay attention to the forum politics, reputations, and what-have-you. They just buy scripts.

As soon as there's no way for some experienced know-it-all like Hugo, 4pan, or Rydan to come along and say "Dude, these scripts are fucking stealing your shit", there's potential for people to get greedy, have their eyes light up with the proverbial dollar signs, and do something sneaky. You might say "but if I wanted to be malicious and steal from people without anybody knowing, I could just obfuscate the scripts myself and make the cod every hard to understand". And that's exactly my point.

Thanks, actually more polite and well based answer than expected

I understand you can't trust us in the same way you do with Syntax, that's understandable.

Basically I have just one thing to comment on which is the first paragraph. We would not have made this thread unless the rules were the same for every team. If others would not have had the opportunity for your .xblua we would play by the rules and do what we could. If the play-rules would have been the same for every team, sharing would've been a collective problem, while atm I'm sure it only affects us mostly, perhaps other scripters as well. It's just as Nakuu described, irritating, and quite de-motivating knowing we can improve our scripts, but as soon as we've done that someone gonna release it for free, while there is a sollution so nearby at hand but yet not reachable. I'm sure you're aware of the feeling while there was some xenobot crack out in the open.

Guess I have nothing more to say.

edit: About scripts being shared amongs moderators I believe we mean Joshwa being in the chat-group where this sharing has its origin and not doing anything about it is kinda unprofessional as a moderator. Nothing personally against Joshwa, just the role as a moderator might be a bit higher professionality expected.

[Pixels]

to begin with, I'm an idiot
My opinion does not count much
and I use a translator due to bad english

I have a busy job
and that is precisely why I use xenobot

I always have access to the forum which is very active

I am a computer illiterate so I find it difficult to follow updates often does succeed as long as the base remains the same, but I hope the community gets what they want, I will certainly vote for more update's I would have little benefit from it (maybe it works even against me)

Sincerely Pixels

[nuub]

Thanks, actually more polite and well based answer than expected
edit: About scripts being shared amongs moderators I believe we mean Joshwa being in the chat-group where this sharing has its origin and not doing anything about it is kinda unprofessional as a moderator. Nothing personally against Joshwa, just the role as a moderator might be a bit higher professionality expected.

I actually don't understand what you guys would like him to do?, Beg some random people on skype to not share scripts?

[Joshwa534]

I think you guys should talk it out in a LOOOOOONG skype call or private chat, everyone who is involved in this "thing". This thread is pure bashing, and the only people who getting profit out of this thread are competitors from other bot sites :d

I like the way you think, we've tried that already twice today. I'm not going to sit here and post screenshots of our conversations though as I do respect everyone that's posted here thus far and privacy is important.

---

The thread has skewed so far off topic that its pointless even making this post.

I will admit that I do not like the current state of a multitude of things. I have been speaking with others to get their input concerning the current botting situation and where its headed whether it concern Xenobot, Windbot, iBot, Tibia, the new client, the rapid increase in hackings, scams, etc because I'm curious what's going on. Yes, I think OX is lacking in some key elements. Yes, I think Xenobot is lacking some key elements. Yes, I think this community - as a whole - is lacking the friendliness & support that we all once had towards each other. There's nobody to blame but ourselves. Sure, Syntax and I could've continued developing until OX was out of beta. Sure, we could release our paid scripts that have already been prepared and tested. Sure, DarkstaR could've beat Windbot to the punch on just about everything if he wanted to. Sure, Solid Scripts could use their own obfuscation like we do. Unfortunately, nobody here has anyone else to blame other than themselves and that's a fact.

Trust me, I wish Solid Scripts had better protection for their scripts before it got to this point. I've hand fed several scripting teams on Xenobot all the tools needed to be as successful, if not more, than us. I've given out obfuscation programs, I've provided different techniques, advised for/against certain things, etc. Not listening to what people have to say to you brings you that much closer to failure. Although, they should have taken the steps described long ago. Even if they had encryption or obfuscation now, it wouldn't do any good as all of their scripts are already readily available. It does not benefit me one bit when everyone can visit Torg and download whatever & whoever's scripts they want. I wish Xenobot was a lot more advanced than it currently is. Do you think I like seeing other scripters being able to do shit that we cannot simply due to bot limitations? Do you know how many customers have come to me in the last 3 years asking if we can make this or that? Its simply not possible here. I wish someday Syntax and I fix the last 2 bugs in OX because that's all we're down to. As a businessman, I wish a lot of things were more in my favor but that's just not the way the world works.

Some of you haven't been part of this community long enough to see what's happened in the course of a few years. When I first joined Xenobot and founded JXScripts, we were the underdog. We busted our asses to get to where we are today long before I invited Syntax to join my scripting team. The little title that says 'Admin' has nothing to do with how skilled he is at scripting, most of Xenobot's staff don't know half the shit he does. He has every right to call you out on whatever he wants. As for DarkstaR, this is his bot & his forum, what he says goes and that's just how it is. He might not be the nicest guy I've ever met but he's intelligent and he's fair. There have been several instances where he's rewarded people for doing positive shit for this community. You can't always be a beggar and expect stuff to fall on your lap.

As for anyone else, its safe to say that a vast majority of users here have neglected this community whether it be by sharing paid scripts, DDoS attacks, insults, scamming, etc. I don't see very many people contributing to this community in a positive way, the ones that do stand out and have been acknowledged. If you think Furpan got a lifetime membership just because he asked for it, think again. If you think we got encryption just because we asked for it, think again.

Those of you that have the "gimme gimme gimme" attitude need to grow the fuck up and understand that you work for something and build your way up.

That's all,
I'm not posting again.

Joshwa534

[HjugO]

[...]
As soon as there's no way for some experienced know-it-all like Hugo, 4pan, or Rydan to come along and say "Dude, these scripts are fucking stealing your shit", there's potential for people to get greedy, have their eyes light up with the proverbial dollar signs, and do something sneaky. You might say "but if I wanted to be malicious and steal from people without anybody knowing, I could just obfuscate the scripts myself and make the cod every hard to understand". And that's exactly my point.

I felt offended

BTW, about new features.
DarkstaR is alone with coding and everybody have normal life, GF, wanna drink beer, not 24/7 Tibia, example. WindBot have ~3 coders.

EDIT2.

TIBIA IS GOING DOWN.

[DarkstaR]

Also, sure, It hurts me so much that someone has access to something that helps them a lot just because (as you admitted) he is your rl friend and jumped out of plain with you. Even though it's a little bit unprofessional it's probably the same how I'd act when running such business and my rl friend would be a part of it.

Unprofessional? There's nothing unprofessional about it. Have you ever ran a business? I've ran two. The most unprofessional thing you can do is allow third party groups to run unverified, obfuscated code on your platform. In the world of computer security, this is called an exploit. I work for a company that makes tens of million of dollars stopping this kind of thing from happening. Syntax was never, in my mind, considered a "third party" vendor, which is why he had access. Joshwa doesn't even have access, and from day one I made it clear to Syntax to never let anybody use the code but him.

Anyway, this thread gave a lot of good things as well - for example Rydan saying he could take take of checking out our scripts etc and I am pretty sure there are some other people who could help with that as well.

The encryption is user-based. That means that he would have to go ahead and re-verify the code for every user that gets one of your scripts. If you want to do that, you can, and it's a business arrangement that you can do with him. I will give him access to the interface and he can set his price if he wants to. But your team, as a whole, will not have direct access to the interface.

[Pietro1906]

I also see mature people being neutral and supporting Solid Scripts.

Again with the maturity=supporting Solid shitlogic...
Followed up by being neutral=supporting a side in an arguement shitlogic.

Where do you guys all take this from?

[sausting]

@Pietro1906 your posts are void of any substance or logic, please refrain

[kubax36]

In my opinion Xenobot is good bot for scripters. Best example is that on windbot forum, theard like that would be deleted immidietly and you, @Nakuu would have warn already.

You cant avoid sharing scripts, people are even share costs of script and buying it for 5 players. Sharing is not only problem of bot scripts its touching everything in life. Its like with books in public libraries, you can read it for free, meanwhile writer of this book thinks that everyone should buy his book instead of renting it from library.

But I must agree with one thing, Xenobot have lack of new features in last updates, however those features which are already included in bot are enough to make script EVERYWHERE (atleast for me)

also, whats the matter HOW script is written if its working like a charm?

[Pietro1906]

@Pietro1906 your posts are void of any substance or logic, please refrain

There's more substance and logic in what I say than in what I quoted so far in this thread.