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Notifications FTW!
And....ofc Rep +
Rep system very much needed but I think that fixing the script section wouldn't be wrong either, very hard to find what you're looking for sometimes (paid/free scripts mixed for example)
New Bump system, as on Otland.
When posting within 24 hours, and you were the last one to post. There will be no new post, but the post will be in the previous one.
Example;
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v
SELLING CHAR
-- EDIT --
BUMP
Very nice thread. A great idea it was bro.
Hello everyone,
I've been absent for quite some time due to personal issues and life in general, but I'm back for a while. A couple years ago when this forum was created in lieu of the development of XenoBot, I donated several times to support Nick and this venture because I knew it would become something quite awesome. I was one of the first Lifetime Subscribers to XenoBot, even before it had its own forum! And now look at what Nick has accomplished...it's amazing. Congratulations, Nick. I'm proud of you, brotha. ;)
With that being said, I would like to continue providing feedback to the community and helping in anyway that I can. Today I am making this post in order to suggest a more organized layout in the 'Trading' forum, as it is a mess today. My suggestion is simple and should only take a few moments for an Admin to change:
There should be sub-forums within the Trading area. A sub-forum for: Characters, Gold, Scam Reports, Other Services, etc. There are a few forums who have this layout already, and I think it's definitely something we should all consider at this point, considering the amount of posts made in that area each day. It would also be nice if you could disable the post count increase when posting in the Trading forum. Why? People bump threads multiple times a day, not only are they breaking the rules, this means they're increasing their post count with pointless posts. For some reason, people believe a "high post count" makes them trustworthy, reliable, etc. But that doesn't mean jack when all they're doing is bumping their threads all day, right? The reputation system should be enabled for this.
That concludes my suggestion. Hopefully others can see why I would suggest such a change. Obviously it doesn't have to be exactly as I suggested, but something of the sort would be greatly beneficial.
Regards,
J.Dre
@J.Dre
A good suggestion, especially about the bumps I have something to add.
Some time ago, on OtFans/OtLand (not sure which) they add a unique posting/bumping system.
If you would make a post at e.g. 5:00 PM and you would bump it at 6:00 PM it would look like this;
Instead of this;Quote:
5:00 PM
BUMP
-- EDIT --
BUMP
So, what I mean is that you won't get 2 post but your new post will get inside the previous one to prevent people from bumping 4 times/day.Quote:
5:00 PM
BUMP
-------------------------------------------
6:00 PM
BUMP
I sold/bought/traded WoW accounts on another forum a few years ago, it had a great reputation system. It pretty much graded how the "trade" went. You could give a positive, and give your reasoning. Or you could give a negative or a neutral rating, it would show up right under the avatar, you could click it and see what people wrote about the previous transactions with that member. The only downfall to that is people were making accounts to just give them a positive. It was kinda shady, but if there could be a way to fix that then it could work.
Good suggestions have been posted. Haven't heard anything in response to them... Shall we make new threads?
J.Dre
Why not add shoutbox on this forum?
chatbox?Quote:
Originally Posted by Creesh
There is, you need 300 posts and a join date of 6 months ago (I'm not sure)
o.0 Didnt know :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Xeromex
Hi there, I'll just rant a little about how lately I feel like half the new threads in the free script package section goes a little something like:
"give me script for thiz"
"where is this script"
"can someone make this script"
In my opinion it is:
a: something that should be posted in the request section for obvious reasons
b: a waste of forum space
c: annoying
So my suggestion: Stricter posting rules in the free script section
Sort threads by last updated/edited, its hard to keep up with whats new
@DarkstaR; @Syntax; @Jo3Bingham; @Messed Around; @Infernal Bolt:
I believe this community is in dire need of a report system. Reports will be made by members, and these reports will create a new thread in a forum of which only moderators may see. This will help members and moderators work together to more efficiently and effectively manage, and support the entire community. It will eliminate the need of having to PM a moderator to get assistance as well.
vBulletin has a default report system, of which (I believe) sends emails to moderators. But I think that is a bit redundant because not every moderator is checking their email every moment of every day. Creating a thread in a forum will avoid spamming staff emails as well. You will have to find a plugin or create the feature I am suggesting. You can use the default system as the interface to send reports, but the end result (to a forum) will have to be made by the Admin's of XenoBot. Even though it's not a simple "switch" or "click" to enable it, I believe it would be extremely beneficial to the community as a whole.
Thanks for your time. If you need more details, feel free to send me a private message.
J.Dre
Been a long time since I managed vB forums, but from what I can remember you can set it not to email moderators and automatically post a thread somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Dre
If there is, that's good. I know there are plugins and custom report systems available.
Considering my last suggestion was ignored, I'm assuming this one will be as well. But, what the hell...
Basic information: I'd like to propose a new sub-forum of the trading area named, "Middleman Services." Only approved/verified middlemen would be allowed to create a thread in this area, if they even want to have a middleman service. Unapproved or non-verified members may still create a middleman service, but not in this specific sub-forum. In addition to this, the following would be added:
- vBulletin Feedback System (e.g. iTrader v2.8)
- New user group (e.g. XenoBot Middleman, XenoBot Seller)
Requirements for becoming an official XenoBot Middleman:
- Within the "Senior Member" group.
- Has been a member for at least 1 year.
- Gain a feedback score of 50 or higher (using iTrader) with a 100% rating.
Note: This would be obtainable in the trading area only. Feedback can only be given on trade verification threads.- Has an active XenoBot subscription or has had an active subscription in the past three months.
Why use this system? It's simple: It gives active members incentive to be recognized as trustworthy members within the community, being given the opportunity to earn a rank. This system can be expanded beyond middleman services, this is just one of my many ideas for such a system.* :cool:
The goal is simple: Deter scamming and provide the community with a reliable foundation for which anyone can trade. The trading area of this forum, while not the main focus of the forum, has become the most popular section and demands more attention. This section has gained somewhat of a bad reputation over the past couple of years due to the exponential growth in scams going around, and I think it's time we tried something new. "Don't like how the tablet is set? Flip it over."
J.Dre
*This feedback system, if implemented properly, may be the one thing that this trading forum desperately needs.
@jo3bingham, @DarkstaR, @Syntax, @Spectrus, @Messed Around, @Luls, @Infernal Bolt, @Aydin, @Elvang
How does this deter people from scamming someone after getting the rating?
It doesn't stop scamming in its tracks. Nothing will do this. The whole point is to give members options, reliable ones, that the community and staff have decided are worthy. The system works similar to eBay's feedback system. Good feedback is rewarded with a score, and once you reach a certain level, you are eligible to be an official middleman, if you so wish, and are approved by Moderators.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvang
I don't like the idea.
We have seen members who have been active for years that ended up scamming people. If we give people the name of an approved middleman within this community, it will always be our fault if that person ends up scamming someone. That's also the reason why moderators are not allowed to vouch for anyone.
Yes, even a former staff member was involved/affiliated with a scammer. It doesn't stop scamming. That's not the point. It creates a safer path.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aydin
I have to agree with @Aydin on this one. Even if we did give people approved middleman status it doesn't stop them from gaining rep and then using it for a big deal and taking the money, account(s) and everything else in the trade for themselves. This would only give people a bigger incentive to get the approved middleman status.
Not saying it wouldn't be useful but there's no way we could give someone an approved status since the fault would come back to XenoBot & Staff. :)
I'd agree with that if we were talking about new members. How many senior members are there, and how many want to be a middleman? And of those, how many have 50+ successful trades to achieve the required feedback score? Very few, if any at all. It's not easy, and it's not supposed to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Messed Around
EDIT: Liability would not be put on XenoBot. Wasn't it made clear that all trades are conducted at ones own risk? This simply reduces that risk by allowing a community approved individual with a perfect trade history the opportunity to stand out among others.
Dre, I'd like to start by saying that I really appreciate the amount of work you've put in, and I don't think anyone on the forums can dispute the fact that you have put in a lot of work to try to improve the trading section.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Dre
That being said, the moment that XenoBot starts making anything "approved/verified", it does put liability on XenoBot, regardless of whatever warnings are given to people.
This might be a bit outdated at this point; I am fairly inactive and don't really have the time to keep up to date with a lot of stuff that happens these days:
It's the same reason there is only one scripting team that has the ability to encrypt their scripts (OX). Because regardless of how many good, working scripts other teams have released, it doesn't change the fact that if they had the ability to encrypt their scripts, it is possible for them to do serious harm with them, and if anything did happen, it would come back to XenoBot for giving them the ability to encrypt the scripts in the first place.
I've just been a member of this community for so long and have witnessed hundreds of scams, maybe even thousands, and I'm tired of these kids falling prey to such assholes. Something needs to be done, and I think little steps like this will lead us to a big resolve. We may not be able to stop scammers in their tracks but we can make scamming more difficult by providing the community with safe alternatives, and by keeping them informed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luls
But back to the topic... ;) Hmm, okay. I suppose it could be an issue. I don't think it's likely to become one but the possibility is there. Becoming an approved middleman would take a new member more than a year to accomplish, and do all of that with the intention of scamming someone only once?
It doesn't seem logical to base this decision on what might happen as opposed to what will happen. It will help the trading area, and might become a liability issue. The benefits far outweigh the costs - an airplane may crash or a car may break down, but I still need to get from point A to point B in a timely manner. Basing your actions on fear of what "might" happen is illogical, especially when the benefit of said action far outweighs the negative possibilities and is far more unlikely to occur. Simply implement a new rule or policy regarding the trading area relieving XenoBot from all liability. If someone complains, do what we already do: refer them to the policy and end the conversation. Simple as that.
It seems to me like the whole feedback system would be good regardless. It doesn't have to be specifically for a middleman service section, as suggested above. What do you think of the feedback system in itself?
@J.Dre
I read what you said, yes it is a good idea. But also no it isn't. The idea has much benefits, as well as tons of drawbacks. As mentioned before, if one were to purposely gain the status to only try and cash out on it afterwards, what's the point?
Plus if I were to get scammed with using a middleman I would blame the middleman... Who was vouched by the Forum mods, I'd point fingers that direction too...
Just my 2 cents.
@Veela,
You honestly believe someone would spend more than a year on this forum, making 50+ successful trades all to be approved to be a middle man, to scam a single person before being banished? It would be easier just to make a thread now and wait for their victim. It's extremely unlikely. It doesn't increase the odds of anything happening that doesn't already happen. It will only decrease the risk of members being drawn into scammers laps. The liability issue can be sworn away by a simple rule/policy change.
For the sake of discussion, let me explain this differently:
Let's assume there are 100 senior members eligible to be "approved" for a middleman position. Of these 100 members, only 5 of them wish to be official XenoBot middlemen. Of these 5 that wish to be middlemen, let's assume that at least 1 of them is planning to be a scammer, and all of them are approved. Because it takes at least 50 successful trades to become eligible -- not approved -- for such position, that is 50 satisfied customers before this scammer even gets the chance to scam, assuming he is even approved for the position... Now let's assume his very first trade as an official middleman is a scam. :rolleyes: He will be banished immediately after this first scam. This means there is a 50:1 ratio of successful trades to scams. Right now, the ratio is roughly 10:1 - for every 10 successful trades on this forum, there is at least 1 scam. This means, by simply implementing this system, we have decreased the likelihood of someone being scammed by 400% for that single middleman alone. This does not account for the other 4 middlemen whom have made [50 x 4] = 200 successful trades. The benefits of such a system far outweigh the costs. One could argue the ratio is now 250:1 - successful trades:scams.
So, tell me: Is it worth avoiding the issue on the small chance that an approved senior member will scam someone? :confused: Doing nothing results in things only becoming worse. Doing something will change something. And odds are, this change will be a positive one as we have basically hit rock bottom. Nothing has been done thus far. We need to do something!
@Aydin, @Messed Around, @Luls
@J.Dre
Yes I do... Cause some well respected members have already done that. Did you fail to realize that? I can name at least 3 that have scammed after "building up a rep"
Of course it wont decrease the chances of scamming, it always happens and always will. People do whatever they can to make a quick buck sometimes. You are right with the liability issue, but it would still looks bad for the vouching people.
There are points in your case that make perfect sense and would benefit SO MUCH. But then there are opposite points that make it seem illogical. As a whole it's an admirable concept, but doesn't seem to fit in.
That is irrelevant to this discussion because the argument here is about the liability brought to XenoBot staff. Nobody blames XenoBot staff for those scams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Veela
Outliers exist in every case, in every scenario, in every part of life. You can't deny a system that will benefit hundreds or thousands of members because 2-3 people don't meet the criteria. Imagine the benefit over time this system will have. We're talking, potentially, years of prevented scams and tens of thousands of dollars saved (or more). It would be foolish not to implement this system.
EDIT: It's better than doing nothing. Read this scenario and you will hopefully understand.
I doubt a flourishing trading community has any significant effect the number of bot licenses sold, which is the only thing that really matters. From the staff's point of view there's much to lose and nothing to gain by vouching potential scammers. Implementing such a system would be foolish.
Actually, it is totally relevant. No one blamed us, because we never sent the people to their direction. However, if this system would be implented, we, the staff, would be the ones making them use their middleman service by giving them the apporoved middleman title. Someone can make 50 small trades, and when he has that title he can middleman like 5-10 trades at the same time, and take the jackpot. This system would be so easy abusable.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Dre
Anyway, as been said by Luls, I appreciate you putting all those efforts in the trading section and you trying to make it a better place. I just don't think this idea will work.
http://www.epicnpc.com/forums/59-Middleman-Services
http://www.epicnpc.com/threads/37991...me-a-middleman
http://www.epicnpc.com/threads/37858...group-Benefits
I'm guessing @J.Dre got the idea from EpicNPC, here is proof it's working. Verified membership is required over there though. (10$ payment through paypal, verify phone number and send in a picture of your ID with matching paypal name)
You'd have to copy their entire system to make it work. I've been on Xenobot and EpicNPC for about 2 years now, I've done about 10 deals on xeno and 5 deals on epicnpc so far.
Most people who will reach 50 feedback will be resellers, saying people will wait 1 year and build up their feedback score with the intent to scam someone is fucking ridiculous. Not to mention middleman services will also be a source of income.
There is a lot to gain and only time to lose.
Well, I've done more than enough to express why this will help. Not sure what else I can say to convince you. I'll let the Admins decide now. I'm assuming because DakrstaR doesn't like me, he will probably ignore this altogether, which is fine. But I'm only trying to help, and that's all I've ever done. It is clear it works, and it is clear we need something that works.
All I see are excuses as to why it won't work and nobody attempting to discuss changes to the system to make it work. It's not all about money. Money will come when XenoBot has a better reputation built on smart systems because it will attract more users to the forum. More members = more sold licenses. This is simple game theory in a competitive market.
I've got classes today, so I'll be busy. Send me a PM if you want to discuss solutions to the issues you claim will arise. I've also come up with three other ways this particular system will help, but I'm not interested in wasting more time on my cell phone :p debating what's evidently a plausible solution in helping deter scams. I appreciate all of you taking the time to respond to my suggestion this time. Being ignored is hurtful. So, thank you for that. ;)
@Luls, @Messed Around, @Infernal Bolt, @Aydin,
I'd like to make another suggestion. This time I'll keep things simple: ;)
Simply put, I'd like to suggest a new sub-forum for the trading area specifically for feedback / reputation threads. Instead of leaving the trading area to go to "Chit Chat" or another discussion section to make a thread of your "trade history," I feel a sub-forum should exist for said purpose, as it is directly related to the trading area.
Anyway, that pretty much sums it up. Wanted to keep things simple. Hope that's simple enough.
Thanks,
J.Dre
@DarkstaR would have to handle this as none of us have the access to be able to add sub-forums or even remove them.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Dre
Yeah what @Messed Around said. Would be nice though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Dre
Call me crazy, but wouldn't the "Trading Verification" sub-forum work?
Hi Luls! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Luls
Technically, any section can "work" but that doesn't make it appropriate. The trading verification has its own purpose, and does quite well for that purpose. Mixing things up just makes a mess and may make things complicated, in regards to bumping and burying verification threads with "feedback/reputation" threads regarding trade history and recommendations.
Doing is one thing, but doing it right is a whole different story.