Forum Suggestions

[J.Dre]

How does this deter people from scamming someone after getting the rating?

It doesn't stop scamming in its tracks. Nothing will do this. The whole point is to give members options, reliable ones, that the community and staff have decided are worthy. The system works similar to eBay's feedback system. Good feedback is rewarded with a score, and once you reach a certain level, you are eligible to be an official middleman, if you so wish, and are approved by Moderators.

[Aydin]

I don't like the idea.
We have seen members who have been active for years that ended up scamming people. If we give people the name of an approved middleman within this community, it will always be our fault if that person ends up scamming someone. That's also the reason why moderators are not allowed to vouch for anyone.

[J.Dre]

I don't like the idea.
We have seen members who have been active for years that ended up scamming people. If we give people the name of an approved middleman within this community, it will always be our fault if that person ends up scamming someone. That's also the reason why moderators are not allowed to vouch for anyone.

Yes, even a former staff member was involved/affiliated with a scammer. It doesn't stop scamming. That's not the point. It creates a safer path.

[Messed Around]

I have to agree with @Aydin on this one. Even if we did give people approved middleman status it doesn't stop them from gaining rep and then using it for a big deal and taking the money, account(s) and everything else in the trade for themselves. This would only give people a bigger incentive to get the approved middleman status.

Not saying it wouldn't be useful but there's no way we could give someone an approved status since the fault would come back to XenoBot & Staff.

[J.Dre]

I have to agree with @Aydin on this one. Even if we did give people approved middleman status it doesn't stop them from gaining rep and then using it for a big deal and taking the money, account(s) and everything else in the trade for themselves. This would only give people a bigger incentive to get the approved middleman status.

I'd agree with that if we were talking about new members. How many senior members are there, and how many want to be a middleman? And of those, how many have 50+ successful trades to achieve the required feedback score? Very few, if any at all. It's not easy, and it's not supposed to be.

EDIT: Liability would not be put on XenoBot. Wasn't it made clear that all trades are conducted at ones own risk? This simply reduces that risk by allowing a community approved individual with a perfect trade history the opportunity to stand out among others.

[Luls]

EDIT: Liability would not be put on XenoBot. Wasn't it made clear that all trades are conducted at ones own risk? This simply reduces that risk by allowing a community approved individual with a perfect trade history the opportunity to stand out among others.

Dre, I'd like to start by saying that I really appreciate the amount of work you've put in, and I don't think anyone on the forums can dispute the fact that you have put in a lot of work to try to improve the trading section.

That being said, the moment that XenoBot starts making anything "approved/verified", it does put liability on XenoBot, regardless of whatever warnings are given to people.

This might be a bit outdated at this point; I am fairly inactive and don't really have the time to keep up to date with a lot of stuff that happens these days:
It's the same reason there is only one scripting team that has the ability to encrypt their scripts (OX). Because regardless of how many good, working scripts other teams have released, it doesn't change the fact that if they had the ability to encrypt their scripts, it is possible for them to do serious harm with them, and if anything did happen, it would come back to XenoBot for giving them the ability to encrypt the scripts in the first place.

[J.Dre]

Dre, I'd like to start by saying that I really appreciate the amount of work you've put in, and I don't think anyone on the forums can dispute the fact that you have put in a lot of work to try to improve the trading section.

That being said, the moment that XenoBot starts making anything "approved/verified", it does put liability on XenoBot, regardless of whatever warnings are given to people.

This might be a bit outdated at this point; I am fairly inactive and don't really have the time to keep up to date with a lot of stuff that happens these days:
It's the same reason there is only one scripting team that has the ability to encrypt their scripts (OX). Because regardless of how many good, working scripts other teams have released, it doesn't change the fact that if they had the ability to encrypt their scripts, it is possible for them to do serious harm with them, and if anything did happen, it would come back to XenoBot for giving them the ability to encrypt the scripts in the first place.

I've just been a member of this community for so long and have witnessed hundreds of scams, maybe even thousands, and I'm tired of these kids falling prey to such assholes. Something needs to be done, and I think little steps like this will lead us to a big resolve. We may not be able to stop scammers in their tracks but we can make scamming more difficult by providing the community with safe alternatives, and by keeping them informed.

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But back to the topic... Hmm, okay. I suppose it could be an issue. I don't think it's likely to become one but the possibility is there. Becoming an approved middleman would take a new member more than a year to accomplish, and do all of that with the intention of scamming someone only once?

It doesn't seem logical to base this decision on what might happen as opposed to what will happen. It will help the trading area, and might become a liability issue. The benefits far outweigh the costs - an airplane may crash or a car may break down, but I still need to get from point A to point B in a timely manner. Basing your actions on fear of what "might" happen is illogical, especially when the benefit of said action far outweighs the negative possibilities and is far more unlikely to occur. Simply implement a new rule or policy regarding the trading area relieving XenoBot from all liability. If someone complains, do what we already do: refer them to the policy and end the conversation. Simple as that.

It seems to me like the whole feedback system would be good regardless. It doesn't have to be specifically for a middleman service section, as suggested above. What do you think of the feedback system in itself?

[Veela]

@J.Dre
I read what you said, yes it is a good idea. But also no it isn't. The idea has much benefits, as well as tons of drawbacks. As mentioned before, if one were to purposely gain the status to only try and cash out on it afterwards, what's the point?
Plus if I were to get scammed with using a middleman I would blame the middleman... Who was vouched by the Forum mods, I'd point fingers that direction too...

Just my 2 cents.

[J.Dre]

@Veela,

You honestly believe someone would spend more than a year on this forum, making 50+ successful trades all to be approved to be a middle man, to scam a single person before being banished? It would be easier just to make a thread now and wait for their victim. It's extremely unlikely. It doesn't increase the odds of anything happening that doesn't already happen. It will only decrease the risk of members being drawn into scammers laps. The liability issue can be sworn away by a simple rule/policy change.

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For the sake of discussion, let me explain this differently:

Let's assume there are 100 senior members eligible to be "approved" for a middleman position. Of these 100 members, only 5 of them wish to be official XenoBot middlemen. Of these 5 that wish to be middlemen, let's assume that at least 1 of them is planning to be a scammer, and all of them are approved. Because it takes at least 50 successful trades to become eligible -- not approved -- for such position, that is 50 satisfied customers before this scammer even gets the chance to scam, assuming he is even approved for the position... Now let's assume his very first trade as an official middleman is a scam. He will be banished immediately after this first scam. This means there is a 50:1 ratio of successful trades to scams. Right now, the ratio is roughly 10:1 - for every 10 successful trades on this forum, there is at least 1 scam. This means, by simply implementing this system, we have decreased the likelihood of someone being scammed by 400% for that single middleman alone. This does not account for the other 4 middlemen whom have made [50 x 4] = 200 successful trades. The benefits of such a system far outweigh the costs. One could argue the ratio is now 250:1 - successful trades:scams.

So, tell me: Is it worth avoiding the issue on the small chance that an approved senior member will scam someone? Doing nothing results in things only becoming worse. Doing something will change something. And odds are, this change will be a positive one as we have basically hit rock bottom. Nothing has been done thus far. We need to do something!

@Aydin, @Messed Around, @Luls

[Veela]

@J.Dre

Yes I do... Cause some well respected members have already done that. Did you fail to realize that? I can name at least 3 that have scammed after "building up a rep"
Of course it wont decrease the chances of scamming, it always happens and always will. People do whatever they can to make a quick buck sometimes. You are right with the liability issue, but it would still looks bad for the vouching people.

There are points in your case that make perfect sense and would benefit SO MUCH. But then there are opposite points that make it seem illogical. As a whole it's an admirable concept, but doesn't seem to fit in.