Things to think about when trading

[J.Dre]

As far as I know the most effective way to chargeback money on PayPal if it is sent as payment for family/friends (gift) is to chargeback the initial payment from creditcard/bank account. If the paypal user is unverified wouldn't that actually make it less riskfull since he/she wouldn't be able to pull the creditcard/bank account chargeback?

P.s. This doesn't apply to payments sent as goods/services ofcourse.

I'm on a cell, so I'll try to respond adequately:

Generally, no. That doesn't make it "better" or less risky. Unauthorized usage claims on unverified accounts are just as likely to win or lose, if not more likely, because there is nothing attached to the account except some random card. I'm not suggesting anyone use gifts, but merely ask if they're willing to use it. You should avoid unverified users at all costs. My main point was implying that a verified PayPal user is less likely to be a scammer. If he/she is already verified, there's a good chance he/she has done previous trades online with someone somewhere. Getting verified isn't worth the trouble to most looking to scam because their personal information is stored and cannot be reused. Consider this a clever way to find out more about the person you're trading with.

Also, I've learned of recent policy changes to gifts: PayPal informed me that money uploaded to your PayPal account (PayPal balance) from a verified bank account, sent as a gift, cannot be disputed. Do I believe this? Not necessarily. But it does seem to have some merit behind it. I have not tested this theory myself. The PayPal policy is different outside of the U.S., so I can't comment specifically on experiences elsewhere. I'm just going by what I know and have learned.

Hope that answers your question.

J.Dre

[raiQi]

I like penguins.

[J.Dre]

I like penguins.

They walk funny.

Hints/Tips to new or "paranoid" traders:

You have every right to be paranoid! People act in self-interest, simple as that. The reason I am writing this is because I've been victim to scams my for many years, and have come to learn a few tips and tricks to help weed out the scammers. However, nothing can guarantee you a safe trade unless it is done in very specific and tedious ways that most people are unwilling to comply with. But here's what I think will help you...

PayPal: Concerns & Red Flags

The person doesn't want to send payment as a gift:

This is not necessarily a definite warning sign of a scammer, but usually anyone concerned with sending as an Instant Payment will either do one of two things: 1). act out of fear (which you don't want because this may lead to regrets or doubts), or 2) refuse to trade with you because you requested them send it as a gift and this can mean a many number of things as well. Sometimes people see "gift" as a sign of scamming. So, your request for this may be falsely interpreted. Just keep an open dialog and never force your hand.

The person is not a verified member:*

Warning! Get them verified. If they refuse, move on. Do not trade with unverified PayPal members, no matter what. To verify their account completely means they must confirm their bank account information and at least one credit card or debit card. PayPal requires real information from the person in order to verify their account. A verified member is less likely to be a scammer. Unverified members may hold brand new accounts, and this should definitely be of concern.

The person is new or does not have a sales reputation:

Warning! This is quite obvious. Do not let them take advantage of your desperation. I've seen so many good people desperate to make a sale or purchase and end up manipulated by some new member whom turns out to be a scammer. Notice I mention a "sales" reputation because it's easy to buy something. It's not as easy to sell something and keep your end of a deal, especially when it comes to characters, that require 31 days of waiting.

The person is avoiding you or replies slowly:

Warning! Do not fall for the, "I'm busy.", "Sorry, wasn't at home.", or plain ignoring of messages bullshit anyone may pull on you, particularly if they have no trade history or reputation on the forum. This doesn't mean they're scammers but a lot can be learned about a person when you consider their behavior. A person that wants to trade will make the time to trade, just like a girl you ask out will make the time to go out with you, even if she's currently busy. Of course, there's always the possibility someone may actually be busy. But if they are interested, they will set a time to talk.

The person is simply acting suspicious or rushing things:

Warning! For the love of God, do not trade with anyone that is acting suspicious or rushing the trade, especially if they do not have a solid reputation. I've seen so many people be scammed by others because they were manipulated into thinking they had to go or they'd lose out on the deal. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE ANOTHER DEAL! DO NOT RUSH YOUR TRADES! Take the time to consider the situation and make the best decision.

The person will not use a middle man of any kind:

Warning! This is another obvious one, especially if they do not have a trade history to uphold their claim of being trustworthy. I recently avoided a trade because I did not want to pay for a middle man. Does that make me a scammer? No, of course not. But I have a pristine trade history. If someone does not agree to a trustworthy middle man, do not trade with them. Also, NEVER allow them to choose the middle man alone. Choose one together. If they do not agree with those terms, simply end the conversation and move on. Leave them with the option of collaboratively deciding on a middle man and say your goodbyes. It's not worth the risk.

The person will not use other payment methods:

Warning! If they won't use any other payment methods, and also do not have a trade history, you should probably avoid trading with them. This does not mean they are always scammers, but it does mean they are not willing to negotiate and work with you. All parties involved in a trade (of any kind) should mutually benefit from said trade. You will always find another person to trade with. It's definitely worth waiting for the right person.

So, in the end, is this a full-proof system? No, but following these tips will surely help you avoid at least 50% of the scammers out there, putting the odds in your favor. If you need help with a trade, or want further advice, feel free to send me a private message. I'm planning to start a commission-free middle man service myself to help deter scamming. Keep an eye out for that thread.

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*Unverified members have another option known as MoneyPak. It is a prepaid card they purchase at the store and use through PayPal. It cannot be charged-back as long as they enter a valid confirmation number and send the payment properly. It should instantly arrive in your account. This should be seen as a last resort, and you should not deliver until the payment goes through.

[Andy123]

Anyone wants tibia online gold?

[AyalaKnight]

Nice post mate Its important to read this

[warcow]

Hey - this is really good information since I will probably be spending over 1k for a few characters for my friends to play with me. After reading the OP, can you confirm what i'm interpreting below?

1) buy account, update information with your real address
2) wait 30 days for information to update
3) request new recovery key (this may take a couple of weeks)?
4) at this point, any previously ordered recovery keys are still valid for 6months, so we are not safe until 6 months then the account is ours permanently?

so if initial exchange of funds and account information goes smoothly, how can ppl leave a positive feedback/confirmation of success before 6 months? appreciate your help! will save me money and/or give me the confidence i need to how i approach my buying

[J.Dre]

Hey - this is really good information since I will probably be spending over 1k for a few characters for my friends to play with me. After reading the OP, can you confirm what i'm interpreting below?

1) buy account, update information with your real address
2) wait 30 days for information to update
3) request new recovery key (this may take a couple of weeks)?
4) at this point, any previously ordered recovery keys are still valid for 6months, so we are not safe until 6 months then the account is ours permanently?

so if initial exchange of funds and account information goes smoothly, how can ppl leave a positive feedback/confirmation of success before 6 months? appreciate your help! will save me money and/or give me the confidence i need to how i approach my buying

You should ask the owner to purchase a confirmation key for you. This will give you a brand new recovery key.

You cannot order more than 1 key at a time, so he must wait for the first to arrive before ordering another. After it's registered in your name, you should order another one, just in case. I sometimes order two, just to be extra safe, depending on the account. Once it's registered in your name and you have a brand new recovery key, it should be safe.

[warcow]

You should ask the owner to purchase a confirmation key for you. This will give you a brand new recovery key.

You cannot order more than 1 key at a time, so he must wait for the first to arrive before ordering another. After it's registered in your name, you should order another one, just in case. I sometimes order two, just to be extra safe, depending on the account. Once it's registered in your name and you have a brand new recovery key, it should be safe.

Hey - thanks for the info. A few Q's, naturally

1) is a confirmation key the same thing as a recovery key? if not, how do they differ?
2) how much does this cost, as i imagine i will be the one adding to the cost of the trade
3) wouldn't him buying a recovery key BEFORE the address is updated go straight to his current address? If so, this seems to defeat the purpose

Would be helpful to get further clarification here

[J.Dre]

Hey - thanks for the info. A few Q's, naturally

1) is a confirmation key the same thing as a recovery key? if not, how do they differ?
2) how much does this cost, as i imagine i will be the one adding to the cost of the trade
3) wouldn't him buying a recovery key BEFORE the address is updated go straight to his current address? If so, this seems to defeat the purpose

Would be helpful to get further clarification here

You enter it on the website and it gives you a new recovery key. It costs 5 EUR. And no, it wouldn't defeat the purpose.

You should really Google this stuff and read about it.

[warcow]

You enter it on the website and it gives you a new recovery key. It costs 5 EUR. And no, it wouldn't defeat the purpose.

You should really Google this stuff and read about it.

Thank you J.Dre. It ways also explained to me in a private message. A lot of this is adding up. Again, appreciate your time!